[ChazYEG]

It’s rather a poor design period. Underground parking should be required here.

Parking shouldn't be required anywhere. Parking minimums are what made our downtown the sterile parking lot ridden place we have.
This is probably one of the most walkable places in Edmonton (as a matter of fact, the walking and biking score of that address is above 90, according to Walk Score), the streets around have lots of unpaid street parking, I don't see why we should require parking here.
Building stuff with parking should be a market assessment (free economy, remember? Less state regulations? Less interference?), Not something imposed by the government.

 

[IanO]

It was a reply to your question about why we don't see more of a market for 3bdrm units. Alas.

Value prop - 98.3% of people will take a row, stack or single family over an apartment/condo as there is a perception that dirt has more value and firmer sense of ownership.

Schools - there continuous to be a sentiment that central area schools are less safe, prone to success and or not new ie. poorer quality

Friends - oftentimes families want to be closer to other families with kids of the same age and so naturally this is less likely Downtown/centrally.

Logistics - elevators and stairs are more complicated, laborious and time consuming than an attached garage and front entrance/backyard.

 

[MCXavierL]

Description:	To construct a 18 Dwelling Multi-unit Housing (apartment) building (McCauley Quarters Area 1) and to demolish the existing Single Detached House and Accessory building (detached Garage).
Location:	9517 - 103 AVENUE NW
	Plan ND Blk 8 Lot 10
Applicant:	SPAN ARCHITECTURE INC
Status:	Issued
Create Date:	2021/03/09
Neighbourhood:	BOYLE STREET
Issue Date:	2021/06/07

 

[ChazYEG]

Value prop - 98.3% of people will take a row, stack or single family over an apartment/condo as there is a perception that dirt has more value and firmer sense of ownership

Where does this number come from? When? Which population group? And more importantly: why is it and what can be done to change that perception?

Schools - there continuous to be a sentiment that central area schools are less safe, prone to success and or not new ie. poorer quality

This is easy to address: commit less money to new schools in the new suburban sprawl developments, renovate the central schools AND MAKE A FUSS about. Call in a design competition for the renovation projects, put in state-of-the-art facilities, partner some of them with the universities to develop students' skills into fancy stuff, like robotics. We just need to stop commiting so much money to new suburban sprawl infrastructure! It's also an EXCELLENT PR move to actually attract people to the city (talk IT workers and companies that would see such thing as very good for them, their families and employees).

Friends - oftentimes families want to be closer to other families with kids of the same age and so naturally this is less likely Downtown/centrally

Again, a self realizing prophecy: if no one starts the movement, that's what will happen. It also doesn't help that our central areas don't have a lot of active community spaces that allow for people to get to know each other. We have passive parks, instead of those with basketball/soccer/volleyball courts. Why isn't there a single park with an ice rink for people to skate an play hockey in our downtown?
Also, family and friends are not already living in these new developments 20 miles from downtown, necessarily. Go to Heritage Valley, Allard, etc... All sterile cookie cutters filled with people that might still be still hella far from their families in any of the residential neighborhoods inside our "inner ring road (Yellowhead, Whitemud, Gretsky and 170 St). Anything inside this is closer and easier to access from downtown Edmonton than from the newer suburban developments.

Logistics - elevators and stairs are more complicated, laborious and time consuming than an attached garage and front entrance/backyard.

@IanO this argument is borderline silly, to say the least! For starters, it washes away when you factor our beautiful winter and the cute piles of snow you have to shovel to use your driveway, entrance, etc... Not to mention that the city barely cleans the main suburban roads and, if you live in a cul de sac, for example, you might not see a single cleaning the whole winter (and that's from friends I have in inner city residential, like Westmount, Inglewood.... Imagine Allard)...
Also, are the logistics of having to drive blocks at a time (frequently in poor road conditions) to go to a grocery store easier than a 2-5 minutes drive in clean roads, or 10-15 minute walk in clean sidewalks? Commute from 20 min to over 1 hour to and from work or to drive the kids to school is really easier, logistically, than walking 10, 15 minutes, or driving 5, 10? All of that to avoid stairs and elevator? It's laughable.

These are arguments just as good as "one-way roads are confusing for people if they're only in downtown" to keep our terrible traffic the way it is. Or "it has always been this way" from boomers justifying the absurd zoning and endless suburban sprawl...

 

[occidentalcapital]

Edmonton's zoning is pretty decent already, lot splitting is allowed almost anywhere, as are garage and basement suites. That is a lot more forward thinking than a lot of other places e.g. Toronto.

 

[ChazYEG]

Edmonton's zoning is pretty decent already, lot splitting is allowed almost anywhere, as are garage and basement suites. That is a lot more forward thinking than a lot of other places e.g. Toronto.

Edmonton has made a leap forward into modernizing our bylaws, the new zoning code is one of the centrepieces of it, for sure! Getting rid of parking minimums was also brilliant and will improve the future developments by a lot.
however, we still have a lot of people with the mentality I criticized Ian for and, worse, politicians with zero PR knack to envision a way to sell people into living in a denser, more urban Edmonton

 

[quit]

Where does this number come from? When? Which population group? And more importantly: why is it and what can be done to change that perception?


This is easy to address: commit less money to new schools in the new suburban sprawl developments, renovate the central schools AND MAKE A FUSS about. Call in a design competition for the renovation projects, put in state-of-the-art facilities, partner some of them with the universities to develop students' skills into fancy stuff, like robotics. We just need to stop commiting so much money to new suburban sprawl infrastructure! It's also an EXCELLENT PR move to actually attract people to the city (talk IT workers and companies that would see such thing as very good for them, their families and employees).


Again, a self realizing prophecy: if no one starts the movement, that's what will happen. It also doesn't help that our central areas don't have a lot of active community spaces that allow for people to get to know each other. We have passive parks, instead of those with basketball/soccer/volleyball courts. Why isn't there a single park with an ice rink for people to skate an play hockey in our downtown?
Also, family and friends are not already living in these new developments 20 miles from downtown, necessarily. Go to Heritage Valley, Allard, etc... All sterile cookie cutters filled with people that might still be still hella far from their families in any of the residential neighborhoods inside our "inner ring road (Yellowhead, Whitemud, Gretsky and 170 St). Anything inside this is closer and easier to access from downtown Edmonton than from the newer suburban developments.



@IanO this argument is borderline silly, to say the least! For starters, it washes away when you factor our beautiful winter and the cute piles of snow you have to shovel to use your driveway, entrance, etc... Not to mention that the city barely cleans the main suburban roads and, if you live in a cul de sac, for example, you might not see a single cleaning the whole winter (and that's from friends I have in inner city residential, like Westmount, Inglewood.... Imagine Allard)...
Also, are the logistics of having to drive blocks at a time (frequently in poor road conditions) to go to a grocery store easier than a 2-5 minutes drive in clean roads, or 10-15 minute walk in clean sidewalks? Commute from 20 min to over 1 hour to and from work or to drive the kids to school is really easier, logistically, than walking 10, 15 minutes, or driving 5, 10? All of that to avoid stairs and elevator? It's laughable.

These are arguments just as good as "one-way roads are confusing for people if they're only in downtown" to keep our terrible traffic the way it is. Or "it has always been this way" from boomers justifying the absurd zoning and endless suburban sprawl...

You're simplifying a pretty complicated issue that crosses multiple systems of government. I'd agree with Ian that it is a complicated issue with stereotypes that are very set in stone. Unraveling them is difficult since Education funding links back to the province where capital infrastructure spending is more worried about keeping the lights on in older areas, let alone new spending. School boards are in a rough place right now and are being forced to make hard decisions. Is it an impossible issue to solve? No. Is it going to take years, possibly over the course of everyone's lifetime on this forum? Likely. Culture eats strategy for breakfast and the culture in Edmonton is currently set on a specific course. Culture changes incrementally - it won't be easy.

 

[ChazYEG]

You're simplifying a pretty complicated issue that crosses multiple systems of government. I'd agree with Ian that it is a complicated issue with stereotypes that are very set in stone. Unraveling them is difficult since Education funding links back to the province where capital infrastructure spending is more worried about keeping the lights on in older areas, let alone new spending. School boards are in a rough place right now and are being forced to make hard decisions. Is it an impossible issue to solve? No. Is it going to take years, possibly over the course of everyone's lifetime on this forum? Likely. Culture eats strategy for breakfast and the culture in Edmonton is currently set on a specific course. Culture changes incrementally - it won't be easy.

It was, indeed, an oversimplification, but the spirit is that things are moveable with the right incentives in mind. Will it take time, especially for a sensitive topic as education? Of course it will! But it needs to start somewhere.
Also, there's a good amount of things that are much more a PR issue than education quality (the perception that things that look nicer and newer will, necessarily, be better) and my argument was geared towards that, not education reform.
As for the slow pace of culture change, it is at least debatable: the move from compact, dense cities to the hellscape of suburbia took less than 30 years and an immense amount of PR stunts.

 

[MCXavierL]

Permit Type
Major Development Permit
Permit Class
Class B
Permit Date
Jul 22, 2021
Status
In Progress
Description of Development
To construct a 27 Dwelling Multi-Unit Housing building with General Retail Stores in a portion of the main floor, and an underground parkade.
Address
9860 - 83 AVENUE NW

 

[archited]

As for the slow pace of culture change, it is at least debatable: the move from compact, dense cities to the hellscape of suburbia took less than 30 years and an immense amount of PR stunts.

And to add to that -- the cultural change re the sexual revolution of the sixties and the cultural change that allowed for the "smart phone" culture were seemingly overnight. Culture can change in the blink of an eye given the right impetus. Some might say that we are in the middle of a "cultural war" between regressive conservative thinkers and progressive liberal flag bearers -- right now, today.

 

[Avenuer]

Description:	To construct a 18 Dwelling Multi-unit Housing (apartment) building (McCauley Quarters Area 1) and to demolish the existing Single Detached House and Accessory building (detached Garage).
Location:	9517 - 103 AVENUE NW
	Plan ND Blk 8 Lot 10
Applicant:	SPAN ARCHITECTURE INC
Status:	Issued
Create Date:	2021/03/09
Neighbourhood:	BOYLE STREET
Issue Date:	2021/06/07

Nothing special and a shame they are demolishing the Goldberg Residence.

 

[Avenuer]

Permit Type
Major Development Permit
Permit Class
Class B
Permit Date
Jul 22, 2021
Status
In Progress
Description of Development
To construct a 27 Dwelling Multi-Unit Housing building with General Retail Stores in a portion of the main floor, and an underground parkade.
Address
9860 - 83 AVENUE NW

The hole is finally getting filled!

 

[CplKlinger]

Permit Type
Major Development Permit
Permit Class
Class B
Permit Date
Jul 22, 2021
Status
In Progress
Description of Development
To construct a 27 Dwelling Multi-Unit Housing building with General Retail Stores in a portion of the main floor, and an underground parkade.
Address
9860 - 83 AVENUE NW

Thank goodness this lot will get something.

 

[IanO]

@IanO this argument is borderline silly, to say the least! For starters, it washes away when you factor our beautiful winter and the cute piles of snow you have to shovel to use your driveway, entrance, etc... Not to mention that the city barely cleans the main suburban roads and, if you live in a cul de sac, for example, you might not see a single cleaning the whole winter (and that's from friends I have in inner city residential, like Westmount, Inglewood.... Imagine Allard)...
Also, are the logistics of having to drive blocks at a time (frequently in poor road conditions) to go to a grocery store easier than a 2-5 minutes drive in clean roads, or 10-15 minute walk in clean sidewalks? Commute from 20 min to over 1 hour to and from work or to drive the kids to school is really easier, logistically, than walking 10, 15 minutes, or driving 5, 10? All of that to avoid stairs and elevator? It's laughable.

These are arguments just as good as "one-way roads are confusing for people if they're only in downtown" to keep our terrible traffic the way it is. Or "it has always been this way" from boomers justifying the absurd zoning and endless suburban sprawl...

You might think so, but I kept hearing this from friends until they ALL moved out of Downtown multi-family because of it.

98.3 is my edumacated guess.

 

[David A]

Probably a big factor here is that there is enough available suburban land to develop and not too much demand, so it is still relatively affordable there. Also where Edmontonians work is not as concentrated downtown, unlike say Toronto.

However, as the city continues to grow, traveling from the more far flung suburban locations will become more challenging, particularly if you work downtown or nearby. I don't think work at home will be a viable option for everyone in the long term and gas prices have increased a lot. So, I don't think it will always remain the way it has been.

There may not be a huge market for more downtown multi-family developments, but I wouldn't dismiss it completely either. Some people may be moving because of lack of viable options, not because they want to. Companies can and do succeed by finding smaller markets others miss or ignore.