khris
Senior Member
Yet another thread of Mississauga vs. Toronto. Ugh!
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- Thread starter jeicow
- Start date
taal
Senior Member
Rowe
Active Member
This square is to be done this year? Or next year?
Jasonzed
Senior Member
^it should be done by March but the rink is supposed to be ready in January.
And now for something completely different...
And now for something completely different...
RC8
Senior Member
This is absolute non-sense. I commute from one place to the other on a regular basis, and the GO Train is packed in the morning going to Toronto, empty the other way. Packed in the afternoon going to Sauga... empty in the other way. Same goes for the subway. Same goes for the QEW. I've used all 5 ways (Milton GO, Lakeshore GO, M. Transit + Subway, each of the 2 highways) to get from Sauga to Toronto time and time again, and it's always the same. People work downtown, go back home in Mississauga.
I like Mississauga. Lived there for 2 years and still visit frequently 'cause of my girlfriend. But I don't think it's a city at all - it's a huge cluster of suburbs that has grown so big it's starting to look for ways to shorten the distances travelled in an era of high petrol prices.
I see Mississauga as a satellite area of Toronto. Anyone coming from abroad does too. International students are always puzzled when they hear people say 'I'm from Mississauga' as opposed to 'I'm from Toronto' in spite of the fact the parents of most work downtown, children aspire to graduate from U of T, etc, etc.
I really hope this project livens up that area. I have a couple of friends living in the condos around there (which btw are so cheap for what you are getting) and they could do with some non-mall-oriented activities around there.
taal
Senior Member
That means nothing ... we we're talking about it from a jobs perspective ... those trains are empty because for the most part everyone drives to work in Mississauga - and a good chunk of these people live elsewhere in the GTA ... this is the case for various reasons ... you can argue transit (getting to Mississauga) isn't easy but honestly even if it was I think we'd see a similar scenario ... it's where companies decide to locate in Mississauga and how there offices are setup - you just feel weird taking the bus to them even if you can, I'm being honest here!
If there was office development in MCC things would likely be better - particularly over time - but business aren't attracted to that area.
Anyway, from a purely numbers point of view Mississauga is hugely successful in attracting business ... not in an ideal manner at all ... in sprawling offices campuses ... but either way they're successful.
RC8
Senior Member
Did you read what I wrote? Not only are trains empty, highway lanes for CARS are empty as well. I live in a high-rise condo at Cityplace right now, and I can see the QEW from my window. There's no traffic at all leaving Toronto in the mornings, and there's no traffic at all coming to Toronto at this time and during the rest of the afternoon.
Right now, for example, all lanes going to Mississauga/Oakville are jammed and moving slowly. Cars in the opposite direction (coming to Toronto) are facing no traffic at all.
It's stupidly obvious that more people from Mississauga commute to work in Toronto than the other way around. I can't believe anyone is arguing that point for whatever reason.
doady
Senior Member
What does that have to do with Mississauga lack of talent? It seems to me that education Mississauga vs Toronto is an irrelevant issue. If Mississauga can be more educated, why does it matter if there a lack, if any, of education intituation in Mississauga? It doesn't seem to make any difference.
MCC lacks office development simple because of economic reasons, e.g. the cost of building office space in MCC vs. outside MCC. It has nothing to do with the labour pool or population. And yes, as CC pointed out, there are plenty head offices in Mississauga, outside MCC.
GO is packed in one direction because it doesn't serve workplaces in 905. None of suburban GO stations are surround by supertall office buildings like Union. In fact, outside of Lakeshore, there is no train service in opposite direction at all. If you ever use the highways, you'd see how much reverse commuting there is.
Unlike GO, MT does serves workplace in the 905, and yes a lot of those industrial routes are packed. Just look take route 5 Dixie sometime, you'll see. With over 400,000 jobs, Mississauga is probably not a bedroom community.
I don't think Mississauga is even a "satellite" of Toronto - it is too close. Hamilton, Kitchener, Oshawa - those are satellite cities. Mississauga probably is not.
taal
Senior Member
It doesn't
That was my point as well ...And honestly, the arguments being made here are extermely silly I don't think it's worth your time even replying ... RC8 check out the 401 at rush hour and you'll see how crowded it is coming back to the city and leaving for that matter.
400,000 jobs amounts a bed room comunity! I'm even bettering the ratio of jobs to residents is just about the same as Toronto!
I know a ton of people who live in Toronto (downtown / other areas) that work in Mississauga ... as that's where a lot of jobs are..
Rowe
Active Member
At the end of the day... it doesn't really matter. This debate is so pointless. Its that same debate with Waterloo, Kitchener, Cambridge. At the end of the day YOUR NEIGHBOURS.
Toronto is still Toronto and Mississauga is still Mississauga. Toronto will always have the spotlight because.. its the capital(Ontario) and the largest city in Ontario and Canada.
Toronto could benefit with working with Mississauga since the city has no debt. Mississauga could learn from Toronto on how to grow as a city.. not just a suburb.
Toronto is still Toronto and Mississauga is still Mississauga. Toronto will always have the spotlight because.. its the capital(Ontario) and the largest city in Ontario and Canada.
Toronto could benefit with working with Mississauga since the city has no debt. Mississauga could learn from Toronto on how to grow as a city.. not just a suburb.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
A little research goes a long way...
"Long known as a bedroom community, Mississauga is now a thriving destination for rush-hour commuters. More people commute into the city for work, than out of the city, and most choose to commute to Mississauga in their cars - alone. This, combined with a growing population and employment base, has added to traffic congestion and increased levels of air pollution."
http://cms1.smartcommute.ca/mississauga/news_events/media_coverage
"The BRT is not simply a one-way commuting route into Toronto. In fact, many people are surprised to learn that more people actually commute into Mississauga for work each day than commute out to Toronto."
http://www.mississauga.ca/file/COM/Forum_Moving_People_Web.pdf
As for your claims that GO is busier heading into Toronto in the morning and empty going into Mississauga... You are right. The lakeshore line is the only line that actually goes out to Mississauga though, and most of the jobs in Mississauga are nearly an hour from the nearest Lakeshore GO line by transit. You can't use GO trains on the Milton line to get into Mississauga for work in the morning, so your experiences must be made up!
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Tuscani01
Senior Member
Having driven from Mavis/Britannia every morning out to Vaughan, it was common seeing the 401 packed going West in the mornings (into Mississauga). The Hurontario off ramp from the 401 would always back up onto the 401.
RC8
Senior Member
The situation there is that the system is designed to allow users to go in the only direction in which traffic really flows. -> Toronto in the morning -> Mississauga evening. There's buses that run in the opposite direction, however... never seen them full.
The article you quoted says nothing regarding commuters from Toronto to Mississauga, it just says there's more overall commuters, which isn't surprising seeing as the area North of the 401 (which happens to belong to Mississauga) is flooded with workers from Milton, Brampton, and other areas too that are technically considered 'Toronto'. I mean, no shit there's tons of commuting to that area if there's no residential areas nearby! Anyone living in Etobicoke is actually closer to that area than anyone living in Erin Mills, and someone living in High Park is same distance from it as someone living in Square One.
I honestly can't believe people are even discussing this.
Here:
http://www.peelhaltonworkforce.com/uploads/Mississauga Mayors Job Summit - LMI.pdf
Happy? There's much more people commuting from Mississauga to Toronto than the other way around. Taking into account the huge numbers of people in Etobicoke that do business in Mississauga, I'd imagine the number of commuters coming from downtown's core to be even lower. (I don't know anyone from Mississauga who works in Etobicoke! But I've met many who do the other way around)
Now, if you want to see something interesting, take a look at this:
http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-r...WorkplaceResidence/TorontoPOW_PowPor_ec-1.pdf
As you can see, most of the 'employment' going on at the 'city of mississauga' is located North of the 401 in a commercial/industrial area where NO ONE lives (next to the airport), with no schools, no hospitals, no stores, no public squares, that exists there only because land is outrageously cheap due to low demand.
If you want to call those commuters from North Toronto and Brampton (both of which are actually closer to the airport and its surroundings than most people from Mississauga) commuters into the 'city of Mississauga', go ahead. To me all that area is anything but a city, and certainly owes very little of its existence to Mississauga happening to administer those lands.
Commuters from Mississauga to Toronto, on the other hand, usually head to actual functioning parts of a city.
P.S. My last comments were a side argument - please read the document I first posted so that you can see that more people go into Mississauga than the other way around.
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Dan416
Senior Member
I drive over the 401 everyday, and while it is much, much more busy going east in the morning and west in the evening, not all those people are MISSISSAUGANS driving to work in TORONTO and then back at night. A lot of those people are from Milton and beyond. Likewise, many of those people aren't necessarily driving down the 401 to work in Toronto, they could be working in East Mississauga or Brampton via the 410 or Vaughan or Markham or wherever. The only way to know for sure is from statistics (i.e. info from the census) and ask people where they (a) live and (b) work and those studies have shown that MORE people commute TO Mississauga than commute OUT of Mississauga. It is fact. It doesn't matter what YOU believe. It's like hearing people speculate that Obama is a Muslim, or isn't even American, despite you know seeing a birth certificate and him stating he's a Christian. People will believe whatever they want if it suits their view of the world.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
Actually, the situation is that those tracks are also used by freight trains, and GO can only run trains in one direction. Yes more people are going toward Union but the lines don't just serve Mississauga. GO is currently building a third rail to accommodate all day, two direction service. If there was no demand for this service, they would not be investing in it... Plain and simple.
The article you posted shows exactly what everyone here is trying to say... more people commute to Mississauga than commute out of Mississauga. That means it is not just a bedroom community anymore.
Your own source also shows that only 29% of Mississauga residents work in Toronto, while 55% work within Mississauga. Again, how does this prove your point?
As for your second source... I see way more dots south of the 401. Going with what you see though, that area is Mississauga. You can't just move borders to prove a point. That isn't how the world works, regardless of how you see it. The reason why there is little to no residential there is because of the high aircraft noise. That area is Malton, and it has its own history. It has since become part of Mississauga and while it may be separated by Canada's largest airport, it still functions as part of the city.
PS. Your PS. is exactly what people have been telling you...