[interchange42]

Re: Former hayfield heads for heyday: MCC

Well, Ontario taxpayers paid for Mississauga's trunk water system, while Toronto taxpayers paid for their own. (Just ask John Sewell for the details.) And did Toronto pay for 2 or 3 of its expressways, when Mississauga's were all Ontario-funded? Hmm. Maybe there's more to this debt-free state of bliss that Mississauga claims to have entirely authored itself...

Just pondering the imponderables FM!

42

 

[Sir Novelty Fashion]

Re: Former hayfield heads for heyday: MCC

^ Somebody evidently attended the Sewell talk on the development of the GTA's sewer systems. I remember it for its title of Monty Python-scale drabness.

 

[borgos]

Re: Former hayfield heads for heyday: MCC

"Success has its drawbacks," notes McCallion. "Nothing has been done about gridlock in the GTA for 30 years. For 30 years there have been no major government infrastructure initiatives."

Her criticism is hypocritical. Mississauga has steadfastly refused to pay its share of a new and accessible Kipling subway station, which would be used, in part, by MT. Who could blame Mississaugans for driving to Toronto when the bus service to Islington is so miserable.

 

[roch5220]

Re: Former hayfield heads for heyday: MCC

I'm sure we could, however we aren't in this healthy financial position by raiding our reserves like Toronto..............

............. hence having very little in terms of infrastructure.

As I've suggested before, Mississauga could start the process by going in alone, and then hammering for money later mid construction. If I was 'mayor', I would bite the bullet and start building rapid transit, even if it did mean paying for it all vs. the current pissing match with sr. levels of gov't.

Regardless, like the old saying goes, it takes money to make money. You don't have to raid reserves, moreso, issue bonds and pay over time. But basically, its the same thing.

 

[doady]

Re: Former hayfield heads for heyday: MCC

In the next 3-4 years, Mississauga will start borrowing money. I don't think wasting all of their reserves just to build an LRT without funding from higher levels of government is a good idea and it is ridiculous to expect any city to fund such a large project by itself.

 

[roch5220]

Re: Former hayfield heads for heyday: MCC

Miss. could definately fund a project by itself. Lets not forget that we are talking LRT and not underground subway. How much is Toronto getting from the feds for the st clair ROW or the the work on the harbourtfont/spadina ROWs? Regardless, it would cost more as you would have to buy the rolling stock, but, It maybe easier to get funding shovels already in the ground vs just talk talk talk. Its a gamble, and if it doesn't work, Mississauga could take on the $200-400 hundred million bucks.

 

[TdotTrickyRicky]

"Of course NO ONE from UT would post a Toronto Star article flattering about the future of Mississauga City Centre."

"The difference between Mississauga and Toronto is that we have made a greater, more concentrated and strategic effort to build a great city."

FM, if these statements for example were supposed to be in jest or light hearted then it should be more evident because as it stands in this instance it seems that you have initiated the deterioration of a perfectly good Mississauga thread.

 

[Mike in TO]

Re: Former hayfield heads for heyday: MCC

Re: Infrastructure,

It will be interesting once the GTTA is up and running where all the priorities across the region are. The province is interesting is commiting limited funds (they still are in a deficit position) to projects such as an LRT and BRT in Mississauga... it's the feds that are the problem right now.

Mississauga, just like Toronto should not go it alone - there are three levels of government that need to come to the table together to effectively deal with transit and gridlock issues in the GTAH regardless of which municipal jurisdiction the project is located in.


Re: Article,

Great article FM, thanks for posting it. I find the bit about breaking down larger blocks into a 'finer grain' interesting - that will be a critical step forward in the urbanization of MCC and the Hurontario corridor - the is a lot of potential there.

Once outside MCC is areas not discussed at UT there is a really interesting maturation of suburban areas taking place. There are a lot of little infill projects going on in lakefront communities like Port Credit, Lorne Park and Clarkson. Small and medium sized lots are being split up with intensive little projects of stacked townhomes and small condos and in some cases large lots are being split for smaller single detached homes. I find it fascinating watching areas that were initially developed a couple a decades ago experiencing a new wave of development filing in all the little gaps and redeveloping and reurbanizating areas that were less intensive before.

 

[roch5220]

Re: Former hayfield heads for heyday: MCC

Mississauga, just like Toronto should not go it alone

Really? I never realized that Toronto goes to the Feds and province with the LRT/streetcar ROW plans.

 

[dashingdan]

Re: Former hayfield heads for heyday: MCC

Just because Mississauga is financially capable of taking on the debt necessary to finance the Mississauga Transitway doesn't mean it should do it on its own. To do that would be financially irresponsible. No need to ruin Mississauga's good finances just to build a BRT that the federal government may end up help fund.

 

[roch5220]

Re: Former hayfield heads for heyday: MCC

Sure. The better course of action then, which is currently, is nothing happening on this front. Because, the risk that a couple hundred of million will ruin Mississauga finances ( a city pop of 700K) is way too high. Which is why Mississauga has nothing.

 

[Mike in TO]

Re: Former hayfield heads for heyday: MCC

^ I strongly believe the province will provide funding in the near future (last year Move Ontario was the largest transit/transportation infrastructure investment made by the province in a single budget in a couple of decades)... they can't do everything in one year and there were other priorities - but we do finally have a provincial government that 'gets it' when it comes to investing in infrastructure. The purse strings will be tighter this year due to a slowing economy but the money will likely come this or next budget (Mississauga needs to get further in the planning stages prior to senior government funding).

The feds do not get it... I wouldn't hold my breath for any funds from them.

Roch, an LRT which would be the first in 905 down all of Hurontario is a much larger undertaking then St. Clair. If the province is going to chip in on VIVA then why should Mississauga be expected to go it alone? Also the TTC does recieve some senior assistance (e.g. last years huge bailout directed at the TTC - yes it was more to balance T.O.'s budget then just for the TTC, but that is where the money was supposed to be directed) - that said I fully support more dollars for the TTC in the future, but Mississauga should get some support for what would be the most significant transit project ever built there (or anywhere in 905).

 

[drum118]

Re: Former hayfield heads for heyday: MCC

Mississauga will get 1/3 of the cost for the LRT from all levels just like any other project for transit. The LRT will get more support than a BRT.

So much for the total cost of the BRT. I just sold a bridge to both Mississauga and GO since the cost is over what is stated in the EA and close to what I said it will cost in my report.

This crying cause more problems than solved them. When one looks through Rose colour glass's, one does not see the tree in the forest.

Sure Mississauga is eating up its reserves since it gave a 10 year tax holiday. Just think what 1% per increase /year for those 10 years would have made on the bottom line. Even .5% would have sock away more money.

Mississauga is paying for things that they should have been done a long time ago as well for things that got built wrong like City Hall or the LAC. Better still, itself.

 

[roch5220]

Re: Former hayfield heads for heyday: MCC

Roch, an LRT which would be the first in 905 down all of Hurontario is a much larger undertaking then St. Clair.

MikeTO

What I am saying is that they should start it by themselves and pressure for funding when they are midway. If you believe that they will get funding in the next couple years, is the same as my belief that when they are half complete, the feds will fund it vs. looking neglictful not giving a dime to the country's 6th largest city. On the flip side, the worse is that they have to fund it themselves which is a chance they have to take.

The only difference between the St. Clair ROW and the hurontatio ROW would be that Missy would need the rolling stock, and they would need the province to fix the qew/hwy section. There is virtually little difference between streetcar and the LRT that they would be running in Missy. In europe, they run both types of rolling stock on the same track, as would the TTC when they get their new fleet. Building the ROW on ST CLair is basically like starting from scratch. I would pressure the Feds for purchasing the LRT vehicles as laying the track/route isn't that expensive vs. subway. The only other area where there maybe a lot more costs is the CN overpass near the beer store, which probably need more rework.

But bottem line, the feds will give them something, the only difference is that there is no pressure right now, so all it is is talk. Theres no way that the feds would ignore 905 Missy especially for the next election. In my opinion, cities like Missy will have to become more creative politically to get the funding they deserve. And pressuring the Feds this way could assist in their project.

 

[doady]

Re: Former hayfield heads for heyday: MCC

Of course funding an LRT by itself would not totally ruin Mississauga finances. It's just an incredibly stupid idea, that's all.