[STRiDOR]

Can someone please post the letter and sharpie out the address name please?

I second that, it would be very helpful to read.

Cheers.

 

[Aman2000]

Mutual Release and Termination Agreement

I just got my letter today also, this really sucks. I'm no Lawyer but clause 4 in the agreement seems to say if you want your money back, you can't sue them? If I sign this thing, I'm crossing that out and any other clause like that as they shouldn't be able to keep our deposits hostage like that!

 

[SUMBODYHELP]

Let's all meet, 09152007, could you set it up, send us all an email. I'll make myself free to meet. I'd be willing to chip in to consult a lawyer familiar with these types of cases, at least find out if we have legs to stand on or not. I have been told that they cannot build or sell a similar building, this would constitute bad faith. This type of law legally stops builders from cancelling projects for profit. Can anyone confirm with another lawyer that this is the case. If the market prices went down, do you think they would let us go that easily, NO FREAKIN WAY! From what I can see, they really have no choice but to build something approximately 10 floors in height, maybe even a similar 11 floor building with 8ft ceiling or something. Or, just build another Quad Loft but sell it at 450 bucks a square foot, current market value.

I suspect that the timing of the credit expiry coincides with the release date of this new building.

 

[Hydrogen]

Curiosity: was there anything in your original agreement that stated absolutely that the building called Mode could never be cancelled and would, without a doubt, be built? If not, the developer can cancel the project as per the law.

You can't sue someone for what you consider to be poor business practices. The burden of proof is on you to show illegality in the operations of Cresford, and legal wrong-doing with respect to their business practices.

They have offered a credit to you as an incentive, to keep you as customers. You don't have to take it, and can always then get your deposit back. Of course they are going to protect themselves from a lawsuit.

Aside from being annoying and, no doubt, very inconvenient, I am not so sure on what grounds you could sue. The cause of the cancellation was seemingly beyond their control. You have placed a deposit on something that does not exist, nor have they built anything that you can take possession of. They will return your deposit if you request it. They have to do that. The developer does not have to proceed with the project just because you placed a deposit on a plan.

 

[09152007]

H -
Your point of view is appreciated.

However, all of our experience with Cresford suggests that they are absolutely incompetent in every way.
The fact that you suggest the cancellation was out of their hands is completely ridiculous - you seem to be forgetting that they sold us units in a building that was not even close to what the by-laws stipulated.
I had a long talk with a gentlemen at the OMB - who stated that the design variances that Cresford were coming in with, were 'laughable'. Cresford knew that the project would not fly in April. It is now the end of September -

At the end of the day, there is a good chance that we may have to accept what Cresford offers us - but there is no was we will do so without exposing Cresford for the arrogant and incompetent outfit that they are.

I will find 1-2 lawyers that deal with similar issues and the group that is assembled - I will send out a group email (from the gmail acct) in the next 2 days with the lawyers contact details and a place/time to meet.

 

[SUMBODYHELP]

Do not sign - Push back

I spoke with Paul Stevens from Cresford this morning, I was impressed I got a call back, I left a message only yesterday with Jerry Cino. I advised Paul that we had formed a group and are seeking legal advice. I first challenged him by asking if they would have let us go so easily had the market price gone down. He tried to tell me the project had too many problems and that the entire "footprint" of the building needed to be changed, he also pointed out the setback etc. So I told him that I read the April decision as a matter of public record, and that I know that the setback was not the outstanding issue, only the building height. . He had nothing to say. I also advised that I thought the credit and expiry date was insulting given what we forfeited by purchasing through them. I also pointed out that the only reason they did this was to get us to buy the remaining units that nobody wants in their other buildings e.g. Casa, which is 40% more expensive than our prices 2 years ago and has 20% of the units remaining.

I told him that at the least, they could have extended the credit long enough for us to buy something at the new Mode, at least give us a chance. Also, give us more credit, or free upgrades in the new building, something to ease the pain of the higher market prices but still give us the opp to live there. I told him that we bought Mode because of the area mainly and now they are pushing us to developments WAY outside of that area. Who wants to live at NXT or Windermere? I have to take the Go transit to get to work from there, might as well live in Ajax. Finally, I complained about the interest rate, again insulting, ING direct would have paid more. I estimate they paid us at 1.5% at most. I told him we basiclly lost money because of investing in them.

He said he would look into seeing if changes could be made to the mutual release agreement and terms. Basically, extend the credit expiry date and increase it so we can buy something in the new building at close to the price we paid.

Signing the " Mutual Release" means you can't sue them in the future even if they build an identical building but sell it at higher prices. This is our negotiating point, they know this, that is why they are trying to get us to sign and set an expiry of end of this year. The building will surely be released next year when they are absolved of any outstanding credit and free to charge any price they want.

Question: Do we have all the time in the world to sign the release? There is no limitation on the duration of time, is that correct? We have all the time in the world to research, well, up to December 31st if we want our credit. Let's all do some research, ask whoever you can, ask your lawyers and real estate agent.

I know we can get a better deal, we made amendments to the purchase agreement, we can make amendments to the Mutual release agreement.

 

[09152007]

Well Done mate -

They are struggling.

Frankly the least they can do is offer us the credit for the new 'MODE', or give us the credit in cash

We need to get as many people as possible to join our cause, or else it will be irrelevant

 

[jeaton]

Good work

I spoke with Paul Stevens from Cresford this morning, I was impressed I got a call back, I left a message only yesterday with Jerry Cino. I advised Paul that we had formed a group and are seeking legal advice. I first challenged him by asking if they would have let us go so easily had the market price gone down. He tried to tell me the project had too many problems and that the entire "footprint" of the building needed to be changed, he also pointed out the setback etc. So I told him that I read the April decision as a matter of public record, and that I know that the setback was not the outstanding issue, only the building height. . He had nothing to say. I also advised that I thought the credit and expiry date was insulting given what we forfeited by purchasing through them. I also pointed out that the only reason they did this was to get us to buy the remaining units that nobody wants in their other buildings e.g. Casa, which is 40% more expensive than our prices 2 years ago and has 20% of the units remaining.

I told him that at the least, they could have extended the credit long enough for us to buy something at the new Mode, at least give us a chance. Also, give us more credit, or free upgrades in the new building, something to ease the pain of the higher market prices but still give us the opp to live there. I told him that we bought Mode because of the area mainly and now they are pushing us to developments WAY outside of that area. Who wants to live at NXT or Windermere? I have to take the Go transit to get to work from there, might as well live in Ajax. Finally, I complained about the interest rate, again insulting, ING direct would have paid more. I estimate they paid us at 1.5% at most. I told him we basiclly lost money because of investing in them.

He said he would look into seeing if changes could be made to the mutual release agreement and terms. Basically, extend the credit expiry date and increase it so we can buy something in the new building at close to the price we paid.

Signing the " Mutual Release" means you can't sue them in the future even if they build an identical building but sell it at higher prices. This is our negotiating point, they know this, that is why they are trying to get us to sign and set an expiry of end of this year. The building will surely be released next year when they are absolved of any outstanding credit and free to charge any price they want.

Question: Do we have all the time in the world to sign the release? There is no limitation on the duration of time, is that correct? We have all the time in the world to research, well, up to December 31st if we want our credit. Let's all do some research, ask whoever you can, ask your lawyers and real estate agent.

I know we can get a better deal, we made amendments to the purchase agreement, we can make amendments to the Mutual release agreement.

I'll get my lawyer both the purchase agreement and the release form. I agree that we need more people on board to help our cause.

 

[jeaton]

Registered letter

By the way, my wife says we just received a copy of the release form they sent through yesterday by regular mail again today only by registered mail. . Anybody else?

 

[SUMBODYHELP]

Aim High!

I think if you speak to them, don't settle for anything less than a 2 year extention on the Credit Expiry ( Dec.31, 2009) and double the amount you were offered as credit. Aim high folks.

I was told that the credit amounts varied based on unit size/number of bedrooms. 2 Bedrooms received 30K.

 

[Hydrogen]

H -
Your point of view is appreciated.

However, all of our experience with Cresford suggests that they are absolutely incompetent in every way. The fact that you suggest the cancellation was out of their hands is completely ridiculous - you seem to be forgetting that they sold us units in a building that was not even close to what the by-laws stipulated.
I had a long talk with a gentlemen at the OMB - who stated that the design variances that Cresford were coming in with, were 'laughable'. Cresford knew that the project would not fly in April. It is now the end of September

At the end of the day, there is a good chance that we may have to accept what Cresford offers us - but there is no was we will do so without exposing Cresford for the arrogant and incompetent outfit that they are.

I will find 1-2 lawyers that deal with similar issues and the group that is assembled - I will send out a group email (from the gmail acct) in the next 2 days with the lawyers contact details and a place/time to meet.

Again, I can understand how the cancellation can create all kinds of real turmoil. I'm certainly not insensitive to this fact. All I am trying to say is that, technically speaking, you didn't buy anything. You put a deposit down for a purchase.

As much as it seems silly to do so, the developer started to market units to a building that did not have the go-ahead from the city. That is often the case. Cresford is not alone in having done this; they just didn't win their position with respect to design variances. If you are able to post information on what failed for Cresford, it would be very interesting to know.

On the point of whether any developer should be marketing a building that has yet to be given approval by the city, I would agree that it is a problematic practice. You might want to raise this with your city councillor (although it may also involve provincial law as well). Developers have considerable leeway, and have opportunities to do all kinds of silly things from the perspective of a buyer. The trouble is that many of these things are not illegal - but more like incredibly annoying - to a customer.

It's the last point that I am suggesting a bit of care with. Bad practices and poor customer service are not against the law. That being said, such things should never go without comment or protest. For that reason alone, keep kicking butt where and when appropriate.

You may even suggest a story to the editor of the condo section of the Star. Something along the lines of what the effect of a cancellation has on a prospective purchaser. I'm sure you can certainly drop the developers' name in the article a few times. Just an idea.

 

[Edward Skira]

I'm sure The Star would love to forego any future advertising from Cresford resulting from such a story.

 

[09152007]

Good points -

I had a long written response, however, I think I will save my points until we have more information/all the buyers meet.

There is a reason Cresford is offering us a Credit - that expires in 2 months - and it is not for 'customer satisfacion'

 

[Hydrogen]

I'm sure The Star would love to forego any future advertising from Cresford resulting from such a story.

Any reporter worth half a pay cheque would phone the developer to get its side.

 

[Edward Skira]

This is the Condo section we're talking about.