Urban Sky
Senior Member
If this only was the most insane aspect about this scheme...^^
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- Thread starter Ansem
- Start date
nfitz
Superstar
57years is indeed insane! But not quickly! Other than that 57-year old plan (and there have been several versions of it over the years), the key element that's been added is the LRT over the new Champlain bridge, to the south shore. Planning for that was was going big-time by 2007 - but I think the AMT studies on it were going on for years prior. I seem to it being listed as one of the "Grands Projets" on the AMT website for years and years (digging through the Internet Archives - yes it was mentioned back as early in June 2002 as "l’axe de l’autoroute 10 entre Brossard et la Place Bonaventure à Montréal". I hardly suspect it was a brand-new idea even then!
Construction on the LRT section over the St. Lawrence started in 2015. The whole thing being finalized and integrated into a single line was relatively quick - but if you ignore the half-century of planning that preceded it, you are really seeing much greener-grass next door.
Meanwhile, look at the status of the three Montreal projects in page one of this thread, nearly ten years ago that some in this Forum were using of proof of how far ahead Montreal was of Toronto. All were to be completed by about now. Status? Blue line 5-km extension - might start construction in 2020 and be complete in 2026. Yellow line 5-km extension - dormant. Orange line 10-km extension - the bit to Bois-Franc is dormant, and the rest seems forgotten. Meanwhile the Spadina subway extension is complete, the UP Express has opened, 19-km Line 5 Eglinton - which wasn't even mentioned on page 1 - should be open in 2021, and the 11-km Line 6 should open in 2023, of our Premier doesn't manage to mess it up.
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
Helps NOT having a Ford at the municipal nor (later) the provincial level.
Midtown Urbanist
Superstar
Dare I say this, but blaming the Fords for our lethargy in building infrastructure seems like a pursuit in scapegoating.
Yes, true, the Fords haven't helped. But we are in this position for reasons going well beyond the Ford family.
drum118
Superstar
No one can blame The Ford's on lack of subway building as it lays at the foot of all the long tooth councilors who weren't prepared to look at plans to do so nor put in the density to support the expansion on their watch. Look how long it took to build part of Line 1 considering it was approved in 1910.
Only have to look at 2005-2007 where the request was made to extend line 2 to Cloverdale and was shot down more than twice. Even building Line 1 to Steeles has been kill a number of times and before the push to Richmond Hill.
Then there the killing of the Eglinton West line and shorten the Sheppard under the PC in the 90's.
Even QP is to be blame, since they drag their feet on funding transit over the decades.
Toronto Council knew in the 90's that new streetcars had to be order and bury their heads in the sand until 2005 when the push started with a reduced number to meet bean counter numbers.
How long have talks being going on for the DRL to the point it decades behind schedule to be in service??
At least Montreal has being doing somethings in small steps to the point they out strip Toronto.
Come 2022, there will be a new line, but not a metro and maybe a small extension of line 2 come 2030's.
Only have to look at 2005-2007 where the request was made to extend line 2 to Cloverdale and was shot down more than twice. Even building Line 1 to Steeles has been kill a number of times and before the push to Richmond Hill.
Then there the killing of the Eglinton West line and shorten the Sheppard under the PC in the 90's.
Even QP is to be blame, since they drag their feet on funding transit over the decades.
Toronto Council knew in the 90's that new streetcars had to be order and bury their heads in the sand until 2005 when the push started with a reduced number to meet bean counter numbers.
How long have talks being going on for the DRL to the point it decades behind schedule to be in service??
At least Montreal has being doing somethings in small steps to the point they out strip Toronto.
Come 2022, there will be a new line, but not a metro and maybe a small extension of line 2 come 2030's.
Hopkins123
Senior Member
The blame lies with McGuinty for slashing Transit City to it's current form and not suggesting a build of the Relief Line a hell of a lot sooner. Wynne deferred even further.
No one can blame Ford for persuing his own transit priorities now if the Liberals were too slow to act and took their constituents for granted.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
While Montreal maybe building iREM very quickly, they can't hold a candle to how fast Toronto can build parking garages.
TheKingEast
Senior Member
I agree. It's a disgrace, honestly.
p_xavier
Active Member
The QC government will ask the CDPQi for three new REM lines in January (North Shore through Laval through DT line, Brossard to Chambly line and East Island line) which would pratically double the REM in km. The main issue is governance and the CDPQi is way ahead of any politics since the CDPQi can actually push the projets through the politicians throats. Couillard when he was premier offered the CDPQi help, but Wynne refused.
aquateam
Active Member
It would double the length but probably add 10% to the ridership. I was near Chambly on Saturday, mostly because I missed my exit at Dix-Trente and needed to drive through 11 kilometers of farmland/wilderness before I could exit and u-turn, and I can't imagine any rationale other than flagrant vote-buying to extend a high-frequency metro 22 kilometers through the green belt to a city of 29k.
Adding a branch to Carrefour Laval is less egregious, but the REM already is stretching the limits to how much branching you can have converging on a single section. They would be better off REM-ifying (or electrifying/double-tracking) the St. Jerome line and Mascouche lines.
nfitz
Superstar
Wow, that new QC government seems to be more interested in pushing transit outside Montreal to low-density ridings that voted for it, than where's the most demand. Still no Orange line extension that they've been promising for 30 years, to meet the REM?
I'm not familiar with the East Island line - surely adding the Repentigny commuter train to the network would be the optimal thing. What is this?
Northern Light
Superstar
I'm in complete agreement.
Various plans were delayed long before I was aware of them.........
But the first plan i remember was unveiled by David Peterson, then Liberal Premier, in/about 1988.
It was called Network 2011.
It featured Spadina to York U (but not Vaughan), Sheppard (from what is now Sheppard West Stn all the way to STC), and the Downtown Relief line (phase 1)
Peterson got construction started on nothing, the Rae gov't only built the extension from Wilson to Downsview, and belatedly started projects on Eglinton West and Sheppard.
The former was filled-in by Harris, while the latter was truncated (Don Mills instead of Vic Park, lost Willowdale Stn and suffered cuts to finishes as well).
There is a long history in Toronto and Ontario of kicking big decision down the road; and alternatively under McGuinty/Wynne of pretending one could seriously take on 20 projects all at once.
That not only spread bureaucratic resources too thin, but the budget wasn't there, resulting in most projects being slow-walked.
This is at least a 30 year issue, and probably longer.
robmausser
Senior Member
I think the REM shows that the most important thing in any transit building is, MONEY.
Having the investment REM has is what expedited its creation.
Funds for various ontario projects are bookmarked but then they trickle out, and things get delayed deferred.
Having the investment REM has is what expedited its creation.
Funds for various ontario projects are bookmarked but then they trickle out, and things get delayed deferred.
p_xavier
Active Member
Yes, but where the REM is there is much more density getting built, even more than current underserved places. Just look at Laval's DT after the orange extenion. Between servicing existing neighbourdhoods or building dense nodes around new stations, with the REM the choice is the latter as the CDPQi gets a cut for any development or renovation near a station.
The East Island line is basically the former proposal of line 8 for the Montréal Metro. It was initially proposed in the 1980s as LRT but the CAQ government is looking into making it a REM line and connecting it to the future Anjou metro station through Radisson.
The REM takes priority over metro as its funding benefits the government. Besides the blue line, I doubt any metro extensions will be started during the CAQ's reign.
SFO-YYZ
Active Member
Don't we all enjoy a lovely bowl of sour grapes. Credit where credit is due.