[nfitz]

Wait...do you mean Eglinton? Are you sure there will be no signals? I think it would be unprecedented to operate a line like that visually.

Oops ... yes, Eglinton of course ... in my head I was thinking of how ironic it is that this non-subway on Eglinton will be so much longer than the real subway on Sheppard!

 

[nfitz]

In London they call the HRT system, officially, the underground and, unofficially, the tube despite most of the system neither running underground nor in a "tube."

In London the pedestrian tunnel uner the road, or to the Underground is called the subway. And in Toronto to at times it would seem - I've seen signs for underpasses under railway tracks being called subways in Toronto.

 

[Automation Gallery]

In London the pedestrian tunnel uner the road, or to the Underground is called the subway. And in Toronto to at times it would seem - I've seen signs for underpasses under railway tracks being called subways in Toronto.

Queen and Dufferin underpass.

 

[Whoaccio]

Wait, just to be clear then, will the underground portion of Eglinton have signaled operations or operate visually? Is there an official statement on this?

 

[Calrissian]

Ok, fine, even forgetting that Eglinton will be underground for 10km (and not counting that as part of Toronto's subway)... The planned SRT expansion would putToronto up past the Montreal total number, if the diff is just 2 km.

So this thread should be renamed!


subway including the RT with the Richmond Hill and Vaughn extension
68.3+8.7(spadina)+6.8 (yonge)=83.8 Km

and how much for the SRT ???


STM (montreal)
Subway
65.33+ 20.5(Blue,Yellow and Orange line extension)=85.83KM

 

[Ansem]

To get back on topic

Do you think that will force the TTC to be more subway proactive post Transit City?

 

[Ansem]

Ok, fine, even forgetting that Eglinton will be underground for 10km (and not counting that as part of Toronto's subway)... The planned SRT expansion would putToronto up past the Montreal total number, if the diff is just 2 km.

So this thread should be renamed!


subway including the RT with the Richmond Hill and Vaughn extension
68.3+8.7(spadina)+6.8 (yonge)=83.8 Km

and how much for the SRT ???


STM (montreal)
Subway
65.33+ 20.5(Blue,Yellow and Orange line extension)=85.83KM

don't you think its wrong to settle for so little?

 

[kettal]

Ansem, you are trying very very hard to create a pissing contest between Montreal and Toronto.

 

[DavidH]

Ansem, you are trying very very hard to create a pissing contest between Montreal and Toronto.

Agreed. Who cares who has more subway? What matters is whether we are building enough transit in the right places and with the right modes. Simple distance counts don't tell us anything useful.

I say this as a Transit City skeptic, BTW.

 

[Ansem]

Ansem, you are trying very very hard to create a pissing contest between Montreal and Toronto.

No, you don't get it.

I'm trying to make you realize that we're not investing in the right place and not only Montreal but other cities around the world are doing it right.

I just want people to realize the simple fact.

A broke city like Montreal in a broke province like Quebec can expend by 33% its subway network and here...

Sheppard to Victoria Park...too expensive (despite EA saying it would be profitable)

DRL (not a priority)

Sheppard West (not a priority)

Bloor-Danforth to STC (not gonna happen)

I raised the question earlier. Why do we pay twice more than montreal per KM?

I like Transit City by the way but not Sheppard East at Don Mills and Eglinton surface route stopping at Red lights.

Transit city has nothing for Downtown who needs better transit.

I'm not trying to start a war between both city bot to show you that our leaders make very poor choices and for pollitical gains like knowing its easier to get funds for LRT than subways and he needs those project to get votes from Scarborough, Etobicoke and North York...

Transit city does help and like I said even if its political gain, its a good idea but it wont solve toronto's transit problem...at all.

It amazes me that no one see this...

 

[MisterF]

The lines between subway, LRT, commuter rail, streetcar, etc. are all blurred. I'd tend to agree that a subway is grade separated, high capacity, third rail powered rail transit. So the SRT and Skytrain aren't subways.

Mass transit is more general. The Skytrain and SRT are definitely mass transit, and so is much of the Ottawa transitway. So is frequent regional rail, like the Lakeshore line will be eventually. So are the Edmonton and Calgary LRTs, even the on-street portions. Not the Spadina or St. Clair streetcars though - I'd say the dividing line is whether or not the vehicles get stuck at red lights. Let's hope the Transit City lines are built as real rapid transit.

 

[doady]

People have to realize that Montreal is much older and denser than Toronto overall, so it makes sense that has more subways overall. Montreal-Nord is probably denser than most neighbourhoods in the old city of Toronto, and it is not even served by the metro. And Montreal overall also has better transit ridership than Toronto (and better than New York City for that matter).

 

[kEiThZ]

Agreed. Who cares who has more subway? What matters is whether we are building enough transit in the right places and with the right modes. Simple distance counts don't tell us anything useful.

That's exactly what I said earlier. Quality and coverage matter more in this case then raw quantity. We could start comparing distances of regional rail services but if we compared quality GO would be toast.

A broke city like Montreal in a broke province like Quebec can expend by 33% its subway network and here...

I don't know much about Montreal's economic situation but I would argue that if they are broke it's quite likely that their subway building agenda is seriously going to be curtailed in the coming years. Besides which if they are broke and keep building subways, that means they are probably running massive deficits, which inevitably will result in higher taxes driving away the businesses and residents that provide riders for those subway lines. I am not advocating that we don't build transit lines. But there has to be balance and it has to be done in a fiscally prudent fashion.

In this case, I simply don't see the need to get in to a pissing contest with Montreal. They've built more subway kms than us. Good for them. We've decided to take the LRT route. And let's see how that works in a few years. We've chosen different transit operating strategies and so that will result in different types of infrastructure getting built. I don't the need to run up mileage counts simply so we can brag that we are better than Montreal. There are opportunity costs to every dollar the government spends. A subway line might mean no LRT there or even no hospital somewhere else. The current Ontario government is making the largest investment in urban transit in this province's history. With that in mind, I am not going to chastise them for not doing enough to keep up with Montreal.

The only fair debate in my mind is whether we would have achieved more deploying those same dollars in other ways. We can have a LRT vs. HRT debate. But a Montreal vs. Toronto debate is pointless and juvenile.

 

[LowerBay]

This is a philosophical matter. If it weren't for Miller, Giambrone, and Munro, we'd be building subways as well.

My prediction is that once the light rail lines are built, things will come full circle again back to subway construction, but in about 20 years or so.

 

[Voltz]

^
We are building subways, and various other lines as well.