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SEPTA looking to acquire 20 railcars from exo.
EXO commuter rail is dead!

If they were serious about expanding service, why would they willing sell away 20 railcars?

20 railcars is a lot for exo, right? They don't exactly have a fleet of 900 like GO does. I'm sure GO could probably sell 20 railcars to SEPTA.

My theory that the REM is being used to replace EXO is becoming truer.

Edit: So I might have overreacted. 😵‍💫

Upon further research, these might actually be the electrified railcars that exo used to run on the Deux- Montagnes line. Which would make more sense in the case with SEPTA.
 
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EXO commuter rail is dead!

If they were serious about expanding service, why would they willing sell away 20 railcars?

20 railcars is a lot for exo, right? They don't exactly have a fleet of 900 like GO does. I'm sure GO could probably sell 20 railcars to SEPTA.

My theory that the REM is being used to replace EXO is becoming truer.

Edit: So I might have overreacted. 😵‍💫

Upon further research, these might actually be the electrified railcars that exo used to run on the Deux- Montagnes line. Which would make more sense in the case with SEPTA.
Except all but 2 MR-90s have already been scrapped. This is before mentioning that those trains were basically on their last legs and were suffering from massive reliability problems (particularly during the winter). They wouldn't last that long in Philly (although I think SEPTA is desperate for basically anything at this point).

What's most likely happening is that SEPTA is gunning for Montreal's recently decommissioned Comet II single level coaches that they're currently trying to sell on the market, details of that can be found here: https://www.merx.com/solicitations/...met-700-train-cars-and-spare-parts/0000306070

These coaches were retired in 2022 in favour of Exo's new CRRC BiLevels, of which they have ordered 50. So no, this does not in any way shape or form indicate that the ARTM is trying to replace Exo with REM, or of any immediate downsizing plan.

As a side note it's quite clear that the ARTM (or at least the higher ups in Montreal transit planning) really don't like the REM as they were at the front lines in favour of cancelling REM de L'Est, not to mention the ones who are pushing the PSE to be a tram rather than some form of Metro. As it stands the chance that they're pursuing more Exo to REM conversions is literally zero. It's not going to happen.
 
Minny's commuter train system named NorthStar is being shut down this month due to very low ridership. It has never recovered from COVID and is only now carrying about 1,000 passengers a day. Due to only running in rush hours and the system only being 20 years old, they too are looking to off load all of their trains which are in very good condition. I understand that Septa & Chicago Metra are both interested.
 
Minny's commuter train system named NorthStar is being shut down this month due to very low ridership. It has never recovered from COVID and is only now carrying about 1,000 passengers a day. Due to only running in rush hours and the system only being 20 years old, they too are looking to off load all of their trains which are in very good condition. I understand that Septa & Chicago Metra are both interested.
SEPTA can not use the Minnesota cars due to wire clearances and platform heights.

Metra, on the other hand, currently has an order for 200 brand new cars due from Alstom. I can't see them buying more cars, especially of a design which is unfamiliar to them.

Dan
 
REM had a major outage downing service on a chunk of the network throughout morning rush.

Hopefully teething problems that’ll smoothen out over the course of next months and years.

Still take a fast fully grade separated light metro any day over other dubious LRT/Tramway hybrid proposals that the ARTM is sinking billions into right now just so we could say we built a tramway in Montreal 🤦 (e.g. new version of REM de l’Est…).
 
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Hopefully teething problems that’ll smoothen out over the course of next months and years.

Still take a fast fully grade separated light metro any day over other LRT/Tramway hybrid proposals that the ARTM is sinking billions into right now just so we could say we built a tramway in Montreal 🤦 (e.g. new version of REM de l’Est…).

FWIW, I oppose the tramway too.

I think for going further into East Montreal, extensions of either the the Blue Line (beyond what's underway to Anjou) and/or the Green Line are the better plan, and can be cost controlled by going one station at a time and continuously building.

Any line along La Cordiere to M.Duplessis should be considered a separate line, you don't want single lines that go on forever as one problem can down a huge part of the system.
 
Still take a fast fully grade separated light metro any day over other dubious LRT/Tramway hybrid proposals that the ARTM is sinking billions into right now just so we could say we built a tramway in Montreal 🤦 (e.g. new version of REM de l’Est…).
Yep, Montreal should learn from Toronto's mistake.
 
These issues are awful, and seem inevitable given the lack of winterization on transit projects in Toronto and Montreal recently.

The REM's "breakdown or slowdown of at least 20 minutes every four days on average since the new branch opened" is far from the partial and full shutdowns plaguing Line 6 though.

The streetcars run significantly better in winter than Line 6, even if behind schedule due to reasons like: sharing lanes with cars, idiots parking on the ROW etc. Again, I'm going to repeat my spiel, the Citadis Spirit sucks, so going forward we should consider buying rolling stock from abroad to replace the Spirits, and should not buy them again (Hamilton LRT). Sydney, Philadelphia, Qatar and Taiwan could import Citadis X05s, why can't we? (Manufactured entirely in Europe, except for Philly, which did final assembly in USA).

The value for money, the mechanical reliability, the quality of the finishes etc. is so much worse with the Spirits. There are more nuances, but I'll keep it blunt:

The first Citadis X05 was delivered in Aug 2017, the first Citadis Spirit was delivered in Dec 2016.

Here is what they look like with the same exterior width:
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X05s come with digital colour screens, and 8 doors instead of 7 on the Spirits, despite being slightly shorter.
 

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More on the above:


From same:

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As I have said from day one. CDPQ is not the saviour of public transit. They just had a better marketing department.

Over budget (significantly), quite late; doesn't work as advertised/not reliable.

That doesn't mean REM is a lost cause, but it was and remains a bad idea that adversely affected transit in Montreal, snowing people with promises that could not and have not been kept.

Lessons - Let professionals plan transit, not pension funds; or P3 consortiums ; do not reinvent the wheel; yes, take advantage of new/improved technologies, but proven ones, preferably delivered by the people who have done the proving.

The professionals have also been let downs at times. Too susceptible to politics, too abiding of competing interests in/outside government, and insufficiently committed to excellence. That said, by and large, their mediocre out performs virtually all the privately designed or maintained stuff in this country. (* construction has almost always been private, though in the past was government led)
 
Over budget (significantly), quite late; doesn't work as advertised/not reliable.

That doesn't mean REM is a lost cause, but it was and remains a bad idea that adversely affected transit in Montreal, snowing people with promises that could not and have not been kept.
I do appreciate your insights and almost always agree with you. But this one seems like a stretch.

Yes, appropriating the tunnel did hamper Montreal's suburban trains; yes, technically, what you said about it going over budget is true. Yes, it currently breaks down in winter sometimes. But seems harsher on it than it deserved. The quality and frequency of the REM is far better than the commuter rail it replaced. It created a spine in the middle of the city with the connections to the Metro that would not have existed for another century if not done now.

The budget increased from a shockingly low 6.3B to a more 'typical' 9.4B for 67 km of rail. Even with the increases, it seems a lot more efficiently designed and constructed than any currently under construction transit project in Ontario or Quebec. (Might not be completely accurate. I don't have the time to look at the numbers, especially for other provinces, during my lunch break.)

There are growing pains, but these will get ironed out.
 
I do appreciate your insights and almost always agree with you. But this one seems like a stretch.

You're welcome to your take, we'll disagree here though.

Yes, appropriating the tunnel did hamper Montreal's suburban trains; yes, technically, what you said about it going over budget is true. Yes, it currently breaks down in winter sometimes. But seems harsher on it than it deserved. The quality and frequency of the REM is far better than the commuter rail it replaced. It created a spine in the middle of the city with the connections to the Metro that would not have existed for another century if not done now.

The entire Metro system in Montreal is not yet a century old, indeed not even 70 years, there's no reason you couldn't double it in size in far less than a century.

I get that government's in Quebec (as elsewhere) spent at least a generation, if not two, dithering on subway expansion; but that was a political choice, not a necessity.

The inordinate costs of recent subways can be taken back out as easily as they were embedded. Replace private design with public, build shallower, and with cut and cover, where feasible. tender at 100% design, publicly finance, do not tender out maintenance or operation.

The budget increased from a shockingly low 6.3B to a more 'typical' 9.4B for 67 km of rail. Even with the increases, it seems a lot more efficiently designed and constructed than any currently under construction transit project in Ontario or Quebec. (Might not be completely accurate. I don't have the time to look at the numbers, especially for other provinces, during my lunch break.)

As per above, my argument on the REM is not against the absolute cost, its merely that the trades made to achieve that have some longer term adverse consequences some with very significant price tags now shifted to other projects (see new tunnel into downtown Montreal for Alto) a fair pricing of REM would include the entire cost of that tunnel.

Its also that proponents have oversold the gains and undersold the drawbacks.

This, by the way is what we are experiencing here with the Ontario Line which will come in years late, and at vastly higher sums that initially suggested, while inflating the cost of Alto significantly, impairing GO service for at least 5 years, and doing needless ecological damage, while creating a system more vulnerable to winter.

There are growing pains, but these will get ironed out.

I'm sure many will, but all the other issues will remain.
 
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