[flar]

Montréal: Le Plateau
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[Hipster Duck]

The worst part about Toronto is that we live in a city that was a quiet town of detached housing with front yards that has now taken on the role of a major metropolis. Montreal's still got the better bones and there's nothing we can ever do to catch up with them in that department.

I mean, compared to this:

Our bay and gables are just a collection of shacks.

 

[Tewder]

Oh come on, the Plateau in Montreal is lovely (even if I do find the grey stone drab and dreary) but Toronto has no shortage of street level charm in its OWN way...

From iKonta at Flickr

From Antoaneta at Flickr

From Stevenharris at Flickr

... and NO the Bay and Gables do not look like shacks, from johnfitzgerald at Flickr:

 

[ganjavih]

Without a doubt, Montreal wins in the historic charm category, and I generally agree with Hipster's sentiment, but I think he's being a little hard on old TO. There are some fine bones to be found in TO.

Cabbagetown

The Annex

 

[Tewder]

I don't think there is a competition, and certainly not a hands-down winner. Montreal has charm in spades but I just happen to have a particular fondness or aesthetic preference for the red-brick Victorian/Edwardian buildings of Toronto and the tree-lined streets overflowing with gardens. The grey and heavy stone faux-chateaux row housing of Montreal just looks a little clunky and odd to me, though indeed charming.

 

[Hipster Duck]

I suppose the difference is that you're looking for charm and I'm looking for metropolitanism.

 

[JasonParis]

I'd have to agree with the Hipster. Sometimes I wonder if getting rid of those silly little front yards in Toronto and expanding the sidewalk right to their front doors would give our Bay & Gables some more metropolitanism.

 

[Long Island Mike]

Flar: Another neat Montreal neighborhood pictured here!
What is the street co-ordinates so I can look at this area on a Montreal street map?
I will post comments about these pics at a later date-I did notice the abundance of staircases including some spiral ones and the sturdy construction using brick and stone.
Some of the rowhouses caught my eye-especially those on the right side of the street in pic #30 which look just like older Philadelphia row homes.
LI MIKE

 

[Tewder]

I'd have to agree with the Hipster. Sometimes I wonder if getting rid of those silly little front yards in Toronto and expanding the sidewalk right to their front doors would give our Bay & Gables some more metropolitanism.

... but those gardens are 'built' urban spaces, and are as much a part of the urban fabric - indeed a very welcomed part of it - as any built structure.

Maybe it's a British heritage thing but this kind of urban form is common in many residential areas of London too, and I wouldn't say that London lacks metropolitanism...

From Zoer at Flickr:

From sarah.t.nz at Flickr:

From HallAnnie at Flickr:

... and if nothing else it's also interesting to notice some similarities between Toronto Bay&Gable (and garden) to what you find in London:
From EricFirley at Flickr:

 

[urbandreamer]

A very good set of photos that explains my point made in the RC thread.

 

[Hipster Duck]

... but those gardens are 'built' urban spaces, and are as much a part of the urban fabric - indeed a very welcomed part of it - as any built structure.

No, front gardens are very much private space. The pictures you showed of brilliant gardens are rare in Toronto; for the most part, people have a plot of grass and clutter their front lawns with monster garbage and recycling bins. Even worse, in more affluent areas, people tear up their front lawn and put up a parking pad. Real urban.

Maybe it's a British heritage thing but this kind of urban form is common in many residential areas of London too, and I wouldn't say that London lacks metropolitanism...

Those images are from London suburbs. London is very metropolitan in character but when I think of London's big city feel, I'm generally thinking about neighbourhoods that look like this:

 

[urbandreamer]

But Toronto is a suburb of London! Or was.

In contrast, Mtl was designed to be the "capital" of a Nation--Quebec.

 

[flar]

These are the most "urban" streets in Canada. Super dense, super intact, full of character, small commercial strips intertwined throughout. There is plenty of well scaled infill, this area is not marred by commie blocks and empty lots.



LI Mike: These photos were taken within a few blocks east or west of St. Denis, between Sherbrooke and Mont-Royal. The Plateau is actually larger than that, but it's more of the same (I say that knowing the left out areas would be among the most interesting streets in any other Canadian city). These give a good idea of what the neighbourhood looks like.

 

[Tewder]

LOL, very good point Urbandreamer!

No, front gardens are very much private space. The pictures you showed of brilliant gardens are rare in Toronto; for the most part, people have a plot of grass and clutter their front lawns with monster garbage and recycling bins. Even worse, in more affluent areas, people tear up their front lawn and put up a parking pad. Real urban.

They may not all be 'tasteful' but they are certainly urban, and you were the one who said you weren't looking for 'charm' so much as metropolitanism.... and as for connection to the public realm front gardens may indeed be 'private' in terms of public access but they are hardly private in terms of privacy, and in this sense they are no more private really than a condo balcony that overlooks a street.

Those images are from London suburbs. London is very metropolitan in character but when I think of London's big city feel, I'm generally thinking about neighbourhoods that look like this:

In that case you have to compare apples to apples. The pictures of Toronto that I posted would also not be reflective of the CBD here.

 

[JasonParis]

... but those gardens are 'built' urban spaces, and are as much a part of the urban fabric - indeed a very welcomed part of it - as any built structure. Maybe it's a British heritage thing but this kind of urban form is common in many residential areas of London too, and I wouldn't say that London lacks metropolitanism...

Indeed, I've always felt Toronto and London had more commonalities than people may think (although these aren't apparent until one gets a bit outside of central London). Still, these pretty pictures of London front yards, while nice, don't give me the feeling of metropolitanism either. Not to say they aren't urban, just that they lack something when one congers an image of big-city feel.