[Baileyq]

I guess my hangup isn't just safety. I don't really want to go to a park to relax and lean up against a tree that has just been urinated on.

 

[slicecom]

It is always a good idea to avoid seedy streets such as Queen East, Dundas East, Sherbourne, Penbroke etc. So if you need to go from the east to downtown, the strategy is to walk along an E-W street north of Carlton, or South of Richmond (like you do) all the way to at least Church, and then head south or northward to wherever you need to be. Just avoid the area bound by Church/Carlton/Queen.

Maybe I'm weird, but I specifically go out of my way to walk through the areas you deem as "seedy". I'm an average sized male, definitely not big or intimidating, but I've been doing this for years and have never had any trouble. I think neighbourhoods become more dangerous when people start trying to avoid them and there's not a steady stream of assorted demographics flowing through them. Thankfully this has not been the case with downtown east, as there's a constant and steady flow of respectable looking people flowing throughout the Moss Park neighbourhood. I guess I kind of see it as my duty to walk through these areas that some people, most of whom seem to live outside of downtown, choose to fear and avoid.

 

[ksun]

Maybe I'm weird, but I specifically go out of my way to walk through the areas you deem as "seedy". I'm an average sized male, definitely not big or intimidating, but I've been doing this for years and have never had any trouble. I think neighbourhoods become more dangerous when people start trying to avoid them and there's not a steady stream of assorted demographics flowing through them. Thankfully this has not been the case with downtown east, as there's a constant and steady flow of respectable looking people flowing throughout the Moss Park neighbourhood. I guess I kind of see it as my duty to walk through these areas that some people, most of whom seem to live outside of downtown, choose to fear and avoid.

I don't fear it as I said several times I don't think it is dangerous. I avoid it because it is ugly and smelly.

 

[bcx]

Maybe I'm weird, but I specifically go out of my way to walk through the areas you deem as "seedy". I'm an average sized male, definitely not big or intimidating, but I've been doing this for years and have never had any trouble. I think neighbourhoods become more dangerous when people start trying to avoid them and there's not a steady stream of assorted demographics flowing through them. Thankfully this has not been the case with downtown east, as there's a constant and steady flow of respectable looking people flowing throughout the Moss Park neighbourhood. I guess I kind of see it as my duty to walk through these areas that some people, most of whom seem to live outside of downtown, choose to fear and avoid.

Respect. Unfortunately most people (myself included) aren't as unselfish and willing to do that.

 

[Jonny5]

I would take the Moss Park area over a tree lined upscale residential street in Mississauga any day. Even Pokémons don't go to Mississauga, LOL.

I don't play little kid games so that means nothing to me. I loved my "tree-lined upscale" residential neighborhood, particularly its lack of generic creative class turds who use city living as an affectation to pretend they're somehow superior.

 

[toonderly]

Maybe I'm weird, but I specifically go out of my way to walk through the areas you deem as "seedy". I'm an average sized male, definitely not big or intimidating, but I've been doing this for years and have never had any trouble. I think neighbourhoods become more dangerous when people start trying to avoid them and there's not a steady stream of assorted demographics flowing through them. Thankfully this has not been the case with downtown east, as there's a constant and steady flow of respectable looking people flowing throughout the Moss Park neighbourhood. I guess I kind of see it as my duty to walk through these areas that some people, most of whom seem to live outside of downtown, choose to fear and avoid.

As a woman, I walk through Allen Gardens and south on Sherbourne from Gerrard to Richmond most evenings and have never experienced anything worse than being asked for change or inhaling secondhand smoke. Sometimes I will cut through Moss Park itself depending on where I am going but the main reason I don't do that more often is because it's not a guaranteed shortcut since there is no paved path through the middle of the park and there might be people playing ball on the field.

 

[Northern Light]

Safety can be an issue anywhere; though as much discussed, Toronto is, on the whole, among the safest large cities on earth, and there aren't really any areas I think are so unsafe that they require avoidance routinely.

That said, when I walk through this area, and see the large numbers of homeless, I am concerned. Not so much for safety as by a society that seems to apt to 'warehouse' its vulnerable rather than invest in helping them get their lives back on track.

I'm not talking about the few, who mentally sound have chosen that life.

But the many who either suffer from addition, metal illness or simply need some assistance to get back on the proverbial feet.

A much more concerted effort to get the people in need the help they need is in order.

Then on to permanent housing, be that public housing, private housing, or for a small number some time of institutional/supervised care.

Like the phenomenon of food banks, I think, as a society we have developed too much apathy towards our social ills, and allow the band-aids (in this case large shelters) to go on
without much thought.

 

[Armour]

I don't fear it as I said several times I don't think it is dangerous. I avoid it because it is ugly and smelly.

Does that mean you also avoid putting on deodorant?

 

[Waterloo_Guy]

I don't play little kid games so that means nothing to me. I loved my "tree-lined upscale" residential neighborhood, particularly its lack of generic creative class turds who use city living as an affectation to pretend they're somehow superior.

I like everything about this post. I prefer urban environments myself, but I'm annoyed to no end by people who think suburbanites are a lesser breed simply because they have different preferences.

I also don't have friends in the creative class, nor do I play video games.

 

[ksun]

Does that mean you also avoid putting on deodorant?

I am East Asian, which means I don't NEED deodorant due to lack of the ABCC11 genes (aka: smelly armpits gene, which 98% of people of European descendant have, plenty of scientific literature on that). We don't even sell deodorant in Asia. I often have to hold my breath in my gym though.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I don't play little kid games so that means nothing to me. I loved my "tree-lined upscale" residential neighborhood, particularly its lack of generic creative class turds who use city living as an affectation to pretend they're somehow superior.

It goes both ways - you will find out just how turdy your residential neighbourhood folks are when you disrupt their status quo (say, new subsidized housing down the road).

AoD

 

[Baileyq]

One group opposing the redevelopment of Moss Park made the following statement:

If the city and The 519 were to meet the needs of the community, redevelopment of the park and community centre must:
1) facilitate the ability of homeless people to sleep in the park and area.
2) facilitate the ability of sex workers to work in the area.
3) allow the use of the area and facilities by drug users. It also must facilitate harm reduction efforts in the area.

Maybe I am cold and unfeeling, but this type of ask really irritates me! It promotes the status quo rather rather than driving positive change.

 

[TheKingEast]

One group opposing the redevelopment of Moss Park made the following statement:

If the city and The 519 were to meet the needs of the community, redevelopment of the park and community centre must:
1) facilitate the ability of homeless people to sleep in the park and area.
2) facilitate the ability of sex workers to work in the area.
3) allow the use of the area and facilities by drug users. It also must facilitate harm reduction efforts in the area.

Maybe I am cold and unfeeling, but this type of ask really irritates me! It promotes the status quo rather rather than driving positive change.

You're not alone.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

One group opposing the redevelopment of Moss Park made the following statement:

If the city and The 519 were to meet the needs of the community, redevelopment of the park and community centre must:
1) facilitate the ability of homeless people to sleep in the park and area.
2) facilitate the ability of sex workers to work in the area.
3) allow the use of the area and facilities by drug users. It also must facilitate harm reduction efforts in the area.

Maybe I am cold and unfeeling, but this type of ask really irritates me! It promotes the status quo rather rather than driving positive change.

FYI here is a bit more background on the matter:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/moss-park-519-community-centre-1.3656134

I can't help but notice how the proponent of the stance is in a position of privilege - and fits the mould of a gentrifier. You know the joke - gentrification is only bad after I had become a resident (and presumably pushed out someone in need and left my mark in the hood).

And I am curious - have they even asked whether the residents of Moss Park whether they wanted homeless, drug users and sex workers to populate their neighbourhood to the extent it does? I mean, it's nice to talk about inclusion and all, but somehow inclusion seem only having to happen at the poorest, most vulnerable neighbourhoods where residents don't necessarily want to own these very issues. I mean, what one basically said is this - you live in public housing - the public need to be inclusive - therefore, you need to be inclusive regardless of how such inclusion affects your QoL. I find that highly problematical.

AoD

 

[ksun]

One group opposing the redevelopment of Moss Park made the following statement:

If the city and The 519 were to meet the needs of the community, redevelopment of the park and community centre must:
1) facilitate the ability of homeless people to sleep in the park and area.
2) facilitate the ability of sex workers to work in the area.
3) allow the use of the area and facilities by drug users. It also must facilitate harm reduction efforts in the area.

Maybe I am cold and unfeeling, but this type of ask really irritates me! It promotes the status quo rather rather than driving positive change.

What kind of "group" is that?

Allowing homeless people to sleep and sex workers to work and drug addicts to use defeat the purpose of having a public space, because it essentially scares away all the non-homeless/prostitutes/drug addicts.

We are all supposed to care for the less unfortunate, but it doesn't mean a public park should be dedicated to them, not to mention the surrounding area will continue to be a dead zone no sane person would want to be anywhere close to it.

1) Homeless people should never be allowed to sleep in parks. Period. Why, because parks are not for that purpose. It is not like all they do is sleep. Many will urinate, defecate, having sex and use drugs there too. If I am not allowed to do those in a park, nor should they.
2) Drug addicts, if they insist so, should use in their own home and at their own expenses. I don't want to see their sunken faces on the streets. Just don't even show them. Drug abuse should always be considered a sin and a disgraceful thing. Drug users should always be discriminated against. Society should never degrade to the extent that we actually "facilitate" drug use.
3) As to sex workers, I am fine with their existence and don't discriminate them, but it should be regulated by the government. I am not against having a red light zone, but it doesn't have to be Moss Park. What about the financial district? It is a ghost town outside office hours anyway and the two complement each other perfectly.