A
andreapalladio
Guest
those photos can't be current. I can see the grasses and other plants in their beds from my office.
B
building babel
Guest
The green roof is on the east side of the podium. MetroMan1000's photographs don't show that side.
A
andreapalladio
Guest
Good point. If they are current, the present an incomplete picture.
C
CanadianNational
Guest
"Mr. Milczyn also noted the square as it was built deviates from the original design created by architect Viljo Revell. The walkways were intended to be substantially higher, run the entire perimeter of the square and be closer to the street."
I find this rather fascinating. Personally, I'm a fan of the walkways, but always felt they should begin and end at the podium roof. If they were to be-remade, it would be interesting to consider completing them as originally intended. A re-mod-elling, as it were.
Also, instead of those less-than-inspiring concrete arches over the pool that we have now, I think it would be lovely to build them closer to the original idea as well - more soaring, more irregular. If we could do something astounding and never-before-seen with industrial-scale laminated or cast glass or somesuch to make them essentially transparent as well...well, could you imagine? It'd blow the nylons off people.
I also love the idea listed previously on here of at least making them shiny and helping out with the water feature element.
I like the way the amenities building is floated out into the pool here, as well. Nice place for a glassy lil' pavilion.
I find this rather fascinating. Personally, I'm a fan of the walkways, but always felt they should begin and end at the podium roof. If they were to be-remade, it would be interesting to consider completing them as originally intended. A re-mod-elling, as it were.
Also, instead of those less-than-inspiring concrete arches over the pool that we have now, I think it would be lovely to build them closer to the original idea as well - more soaring, more irregular. If we could do something astounding and never-before-seen with industrial-scale laminated or cast glass or somesuch to make them essentially transparent as well...well, could you imagine? It'd blow the nylons off people.
I also love the idea listed previously on here of at least making them shiny and helping out with the water feature element.
I like the way the amenities building is floated out into the pool here, as well. Nice place for a glassy lil' pavilion.
A
andreapalladio
Guest
I've never seen that model before. Interesting how it contemplates Chestnut Street staying open, and the old armoury being there too.
G
ganjavih
Guest
I'm sure just replacing all the concrete with granite, planting healthy grass, getting rid of the cinderblock bunkers and adding more vegetation (trees, flowers, etc.) would make a world of difference without having to radically alter the design. Although maybe a radical redesign would be a good thing...
M
Martinsizon
Guest
www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs...9956310551
Heart of Toronto needs a transfusion
Oct. 5, 2006. 10:24 AM
CHRISTOPHER HUME
The city is many cities. It is a place we occupy physically and emotionally. It exists within the landscape and the imagination equally.
The public realm is where these different cities converge and become one. That's why public spaces are so critical to civic health and why Nathan Phillips Square is so important to Toronto.
There's nothing else that fulfills the same role as Nathan Phillips Square; it is, quite simply, the heart of Toronto, our designated civic centre, a place invested with special significance. It's where we gather to mark community events, ring in the New Year and where the revolution will start.
Designed in the late 1950s and early '60s by Finnish architect Viljo Revell, Toronto City Hall and Nathan Phillips Square represent one of just two fully realized modernist projects in this city — the other being Ludwig Mies van der Rohe's Toronto-Dominion Centre. Unlike the latter, the former has become the architectural symbol of the city, a complex that expresses the aspirations of a city that yearns for greatness.
But 40 years after Revell's masterpiece was completed, it may be time to look at the square with fresh eyes.
That's why the city has launched a $40 million international competition to redesign Nathan Phillips Square.
There's much for competitors to deal with: To start with, there's the issue of the walkway, the raised pedestrian arcade that surrounds the square on three sides. Revell's intentions were clearly to provide a protective enclosure for the area within, to demarcate civic space from the urban space without. But at some point the walkway was closed and turned into a dead zone. The stairwells are blocked and we are clearly not welcome.
"The structure of the colonnade," wrote William Dendy in his excellent 1986 book, Toronto Observed, "functions exactly as did the colonnades surrounding the marketplaces of ancient Greece and Rome. Its summer shade, and winter shelter from wind, snow and rain are important amenities. Like its Classical forebears, it outlines the space and gives it a positive identity. To this is added a particularly North American purpose, for without tightly enclosing the square and cutting it off from the surrounding city which would reduce the square's value as a civic meeting space — the colonnade manages to keep street traffic and chaos at bay, at least visually."
Though one might question Dendy's assertion that the walkway provides shelter from the elements, there's no arguing with his idea that it blocks the chaos of the city.
On the other hand, it also means the entrance to the square, especially at the corner of Queen and Bay, is much less imposing than it could be. Indeed, the whole Queen Street edge has become problematic; it has devolved into patches of dead grass punctuated with concrete columns and an unfortunate statue of Winston Churchill.
Should the walkway be removed? Should it stay and be rehabilitated? And what about the ramp that swoops up to the front of City Hall? It was originally intended to serve as the main ceremonial entrance to the Council Chamber but has also been closed off for decades.
Then there's that unpleasant concrete box that serves as a change room during the winter when the pond becomes a skating rink; it is an eyesore.
Perhaps the Peace Garden should also be rethought. It doesn't fit in terribly well and it's unlikely anyone would notice were it to disappear.
The competition will be extremely interesting to anyone who cares about Toronto and its most meaningful symbol. And regardless of who wins, it's important that the square be treated with utmost respect. Maybe it needs nothing more than a clean-up. Then again, perhaps it can be improved.
If nothing else, the competition should encourage debate about the nature of civic space and the public realm in the 21st century. To some the very notion may seem hopelessly outdated. They are wrong, of course, but as Toronto becomes increasingly suburbanized in its attitudes, who really cares about something as old-fashioned and idealistic as a city square?
To some, Nathan Phillips Square is just the roof of an underground parking garage; it's what happens below grade that matters.
Heart of Toronto needs a transfusion
Oct. 5, 2006. 10:24 AM
CHRISTOPHER HUME
The city is many cities. It is a place we occupy physically and emotionally. It exists within the landscape and the imagination equally.
The public realm is where these different cities converge and become one. That's why public spaces are so critical to civic health and why Nathan Phillips Square is so important to Toronto.
There's nothing else that fulfills the same role as Nathan Phillips Square; it is, quite simply, the heart of Toronto, our designated civic centre, a place invested with special significance. It's where we gather to mark community events, ring in the New Year and where the revolution will start.
Designed in the late 1950s and early '60s by Finnish architect Viljo Revell, Toronto City Hall and Nathan Phillips Square represent one of just two fully realized modernist projects in this city — the other being Ludwig Mies van der Rohe's Toronto-Dominion Centre. Unlike the latter, the former has become the architectural symbol of the city, a complex that expresses the aspirations of a city that yearns for greatness.
But 40 years after Revell's masterpiece was completed, it may be time to look at the square with fresh eyes.
That's why the city has launched a $40 million international competition to redesign Nathan Phillips Square.
There's much for competitors to deal with: To start with, there's the issue of the walkway, the raised pedestrian arcade that surrounds the square on three sides. Revell's intentions were clearly to provide a protective enclosure for the area within, to demarcate civic space from the urban space without. But at some point the walkway was closed and turned into a dead zone. The stairwells are blocked and we are clearly not welcome.
"The structure of the colonnade," wrote William Dendy in his excellent 1986 book, Toronto Observed, "functions exactly as did the colonnades surrounding the marketplaces of ancient Greece and Rome. Its summer shade, and winter shelter from wind, snow and rain are important amenities. Like its Classical forebears, it outlines the space and gives it a positive identity. To this is added a particularly North American purpose, for without tightly enclosing the square and cutting it off from the surrounding city which would reduce the square's value as a civic meeting space — the colonnade manages to keep street traffic and chaos at bay, at least visually."
Though one might question Dendy's assertion that the walkway provides shelter from the elements, there's no arguing with his idea that it blocks the chaos of the city.
On the other hand, it also means the entrance to the square, especially at the corner of Queen and Bay, is much less imposing than it could be. Indeed, the whole Queen Street edge has become problematic; it has devolved into patches of dead grass punctuated with concrete columns and an unfortunate statue of Winston Churchill.
Should the walkway be removed? Should it stay and be rehabilitated? And what about the ramp that swoops up to the front of City Hall? It was originally intended to serve as the main ceremonial entrance to the Council Chamber but has also been closed off for decades.
Then there's that unpleasant concrete box that serves as a change room during the winter when the pond becomes a skating rink; it is an eyesore.
Perhaps the Peace Garden should also be rethought. It doesn't fit in terribly well and it's unlikely anyone would notice were it to disappear.
The competition will be extremely interesting to anyone who cares about Toronto and its most meaningful symbol. And regardless of who wins, it's important that the square be treated with utmost respect. Maybe it needs nothing more than a clean-up. Then again, perhaps it can be improved.
If nothing else, the competition should encourage debate about the nature of civic space and the public realm in the 21st century. To some the very notion may seem hopelessly outdated. They are wrong, of course, but as Toronto becomes increasingly suburbanized in its attitudes, who really cares about something as old-fashioned and idealistic as a city square?
To some, Nathan Phillips Square is just the roof of an underground parking garage; it's what happens below grade that matters.
A
andreapalladio
Guest
City Hall appears in full-page Cisco ad on the back page of the business section of this morning's paper.
C
cdl42
Guest
And which paper would that be?
A
andreapalladio
Guest
Oh. The New York Times. Sorry about that.
K
kpad
Guest
Forget the design competition, build the original design. Wow.
T
tudararms
Guest
"Also, instead of those less-than-inspiring concrete arches over the pool that we have now, I think it would be lovely to build them closer to the original idea as well - more soaring, more irregular. If we could do something astounding and never-before-seen with industrial-scale laminated or cast glass or somesuch to make them essentially transparent as well...well, could you imagine? It'd blow the nylons off people"
Well thank god for garters, but I love this idea. The fountain could and should be made spectacular, as functioning art. I find the idea of this to be very worthy of Toronto, and especially of Toronto's civic heart.
Well thank god for garters, but I love this idea. The fountain could and should be made spectacular, as functioning art. I find the idea of this to be very worthy of Toronto, and especially of Toronto's civic heart.
A
AlvinofDiaspar
Guest
From the Star:
Courage to reinvent Nathan Phillips
Toronto's most significant civic space is badly in
need of a makeover to remove clutter and fix neglect
Oct. 7, 2006. 01:00 AM
The idea of redesigning Nathan Phillips Square makes some people nervous; but it's the thought of doing nothing that's really scary.
There's no doubt it's Toronto's most significant civic space, arguably one of the best in the world, but it has been treated badly. Since opening in 1965, the square has been neglected and disrespected. No wonder it looks so shabby and dejected.
That's why the city's decision to launch a $40-million international design competition to "revitalize" Nathan Phillips Square is welcome news. After all, this is the single most important site in the city. Indeed, it's a defining feature of Toronto, one of the ways we know who we are and what it means to be a Torontonian.
The winner won't be announced until next March, but already the discussion has started.
Though some will scream we have no right to meddle with one of the city's few acknowledged architectural masterpieces, this is the time to be bold and fearless. As good as Nathan Phillips may be — or have been — it can be improved.
But what would a revitalized square look like? How would it function?
Yes, the intentions of the original architect, Viljo Revell, must be honoured; however, it's important we be honest about what works and what doesn't.
Besides, Revell had to compromise. Now it's possible to fix the shortcoming, as well as the accumulated clutter of decades.
Regardless of who wins the competition, this is a chance to make a clear statement about 21st-century Toronto, to launch a new beginning, if only symbolically, and shuck off the timidity that has paralysed Toronto in recent years.
For all entrants, one of the major questions will be the fate of the raised walkway that extends around three sides of the square. Revell's intentions were to provide a sense of separation and protection for the space within. If nothing else, it serves as a visual barrier between the square and the bustle beyond.
For the most part, however, the walkway is closed off and unused. It has been turned into dead space.
On the other hand, though the feeling of enclosure is necessary, the square needs to be better connected to the city, especially along Queen St. Right now, a large lawn fills the gap between the square and the sidewalk. It, too, is dead space.
The best approach here might be to extend the square right to the sidewalk and eliminate the grassy area altogether. Similarly, the green strip that runs along Bay St. on the east side of the square should be removed. It serves no purpose and usually looks ratty and uncared for.
"The walkway is inspired as a way to enclose the square without enclosing it," argues architect Kim Storey, who with husband James Brown, designed Yonge-Dundas Square, after Nathan Phillips, the most successful civic space in Toronto. "But they didn't take it far enough. If you get rid of the lawn along Queen you create more usable space. I'd even bring the walkway south all the way to Queen so it runs over the sidewalk. That way when you walked along Queen you'd actually be walking in the square."
Storey, who along with all the designers consulted by the Star expects to enter the competition, also suggests the sides of the walkway, which are now concrete, could be remade with glass. That would mean more transparency, but no less enclosure. Then the square would be paved with stone, rather than concrete, the paving brought right out to Queen and Bay. This would increase the size of the square noticeably, and create a stronger connection.
Another problem is the sidewalk on Queen, which is cut in half by a raised ventilation shaft. In a manner that Baron Haussmann, the planner who designed modern Paris in the 19th century, would have approved of, it blocks the square from the south. This is worth thinking about because the square is, after all, a place of protest as well as celebration. When the revolution finally happens, the square is where the first rock will be thrown. For that reason, even the police would agree it must be accessible.
The shaft should be lower, flush with the street, and the Queen St. side would become the entrance to the square.
At the east end of Queen, where a fence now bars access at Bay, big changes are needed. The underground parking entrance must be redesigned and that sorry little space with its fenced-in chess tables removed. This is the main entry into Nathan Phillips but you'd hardly know it. It is underwhelming to say the least, even tawdry.
Other major eyesores are the pavilions that house a snack bar and a skate rental shop just west of the pool-skating rink. These nasty concrete-block boxes have no place in the square. It's unlikely that any team would not want to get rid of them, or redesign them from top to bottom. And what about he ramp that leads to the podium roof that runs along the front of City Hall? Not only has it closed seemingly forever, the very idea of a ceremonial entrance may be dubious at this point. When the Queen, or whomever, arrives, surely she can walk in from the new and improved entrance on (the appropriately named) Queen St.
Besides, if the ramp were removed, it would open up room in the northeast part of the square and help strengthen the connection to Bay.
As it stands, the ramp is more of an obstacle than a necessity and who would miss it? Of course, such a step means altering City Hall itself, something that would rightly make many uncomfortable.
"I love the square," says Toronto architect Tom Payne, "but it doesn't work perfectly. There are built-in difficulties and others that have been added. It needs new materials, new technologies and new lighting. We have to rehonour and revalue it, but also be fearless. There's a need to reinvent the many little things — stairwells, planters, benches — which would have a huge impact."
Payne also points to the Queen edge, the concrete boxes and the now empty podium roof as elements that require special attention. He also feels that some sort of high-tech stage would be appropriate, something that could be raised and lowered, rather than wheeled in an out.
"I haven't read the full competition brief," Payne says, "but I know there will be tough restrictions. There should be; it represents a fantastic moment in Toronto history. But you've got to have the courage to intervene meaningfully."
As Brown notes, "There are lots of hidden spaces in the square, and lots of lost space. We need to uncover them." He also believes the west side of the square, now a grassy lawn with a smattering of trees, is "looking for idea."
He suggests an "urban forest." Many might also like to move the Peace Garden, a well-intentioned but somewhat intrusive addition from the 1980s, to a new home in this space.
According to landscape architect Janet Rosenberg, "Nathan Phillips Square has outgrown its facilities, and its original design. There's a lot there that's good, but there's a lot that isn't used. In Toronto, we're so far behind in knowing how to deal with our public spaces.
"I think it needs to be friendlier; people only go for specific reasons. You want people to know how to get in from Queen St. The podium roof is vacant space; it needs something brilliant to bring it to life. I like the raised walkways, but they have to programmed. You don't want a Frank Gehry or a Daniel Libeskind involved; the architecture's already strong enough. Whatever's done has to be done with great sensitivity."
Brown and Storey would like the competition to go even further. "It's an opportunity to create a whole zone from Osgoode Hall to Old City Hall to the Eaton Centre, Trinity Square and beyond," Storey says. "It's all disconnected. We could have a larger civic precinct."
"City Hall is an incredible building," Brown adds. "In a sense what we're saying is that it's looking for a new environment, a new presence."
He's right.
Come to think of it, why stop at Nathan Phillips? The rest of the city is just as much in need of revitalization as the square. Perhaps the competition could be expanded to include all Toronto. That would be something.
But it might cost more than $40 million.
AoD
Courage to reinvent Nathan Phillips
Toronto's most significant civic space is badly in
need of a makeover to remove clutter and fix neglect
Oct. 7, 2006. 01:00 AM
The idea of redesigning Nathan Phillips Square makes some people nervous; but it's the thought of doing nothing that's really scary.
There's no doubt it's Toronto's most significant civic space, arguably one of the best in the world, but it has been treated badly. Since opening in 1965, the square has been neglected and disrespected. No wonder it looks so shabby and dejected.
That's why the city's decision to launch a $40-million international design competition to "revitalize" Nathan Phillips Square is welcome news. After all, this is the single most important site in the city. Indeed, it's a defining feature of Toronto, one of the ways we know who we are and what it means to be a Torontonian.
The winner won't be announced until next March, but already the discussion has started.
Though some will scream we have no right to meddle with one of the city's few acknowledged architectural masterpieces, this is the time to be bold and fearless. As good as Nathan Phillips may be — or have been — it can be improved.
But what would a revitalized square look like? How would it function?
Yes, the intentions of the original architect, Viljo Revell, must be honoured; however, it's important we be honest about what works and what doesn't.
Besides, Revell had to compromise. Now it's possible to fix the shortcoming, as well as the accumulated clutter of decades.
Regardless of who wins the competition, this is a chance to make a clear statement about 21st-century Toronto, to launch a new beginning, if only symbolically, and shuck off the timidity that has paralysed Toronto in recent years.
For all entrants, one of the major questions will be the fate of the raised walkway that extends around three sides of the square. Revell's intentions were to provide a sense of separation and protection for the space within. If nothing else, it serves as a visual barrier between the square and the bustle beyond.
For the most part, however, the walkway is closed off and unused. It has been turned into dead space.
On the other hand, though the feeling of enclosure is necessary, the square needs to be better connected to the city, especially along Queen St. Right now, a large lawn fills the gap between the square and the sidewalk. It, too, is dead space.
The best approach here might be to extend the square right to the sidewalk and eliminate the grassy area altogether. Similarly, the green strip that runs along Bay St. on the east side of the square should be removed. It serves no purpose and usually looks ratty and uncared for.
"The walkway is inspired as a way to enclose the square without enclosing it," argues architect Kim Storey, who with husband James Brown, designed Yonge-Dundas Square, after Nathan Phillips, the most successful civic space in Toronto. "But they didn't take it far enough. If you get rid of the lawn along Queen you create more usable space. I'd even bring the walkway south all the way to Queen so it runs over the sidewalk. That way when you walked along Queen you'd actually be walking in the square."
Storey, who along with all the designers consulted by the Star expects to enter the competition, also suggests the sides of the walkway, which are now concrete, could be remade with glass. That would mean more transparency, but no less enclosure. Then the square would be paved with stone, rather than concrete, the paving brought right out to Queen and Bay. This would increase the size of the square noticeably, and create a stronger connection.
Another problem is the sidewalk on Queen, which is cut in half by a raised ventilation shaft. In a manner that Baron Haussmann, the planner who designed modern Paris in the 19th century, would have approved of, it blocks the square from the south. This is worth thinking about because the square is, after all, a place of protest as well as celebration. When the revolution finally happens, the square is where the first rock will be thrown. For that reason, even the police would agree it must be accessible.
The shaft should be lower, flush with the street, and the Queen St. side would become the entrance to the square.
At the east end of Queen, where a fence now bars access at Bay, big changes are needed. The underground parking entrance must be redesigned and that sorry little space with its fenced-in chess tables removed. This is the main entry into Nathan Phillips but you'd hardly know it. It is underwhelming to say the least, even tawdry.
Other major eyesores are the pavilions that house a snack bar and a skate rental shop just west of the pool-skating rink. These nasty concrete-block boxes have no place in the square. It's unlikely that any team would not want to get rid of them, or redesign them from top to bottom. And what about he ramp that leads to the podium roof that runs along the front of City Hall? Not only has it closed seemingly forever, the very idea of a ceremonial entrance may be dubious at this point. When the Queen, or whomever, arrives, surely she can walk in from the new and improved entrance on (the appropriately named) Queen St.
Besides, if the ramp were removed, it would open up room in the northeast part of the square and help strengthen the connection to Bay.
As it stands, the ramp is more of an obstacle than a necessity and who would miss it? Of course, such a step means altering City Hall itself, something that would rightly make many uncomfortable.
"I love the square," says Toronto architect Tom Payne, "but it doesn't work perfectly. There are built-in difficulties and others that have been added. It needs new materials, new technologies and new lighting. We have to rehonour and revalue it, but also be fearless. There's a need to reinvent the many little things — stairwells, planters, benches — which would have a huge impact."
Payne also points to the Queen edge, the concrete boxes and the now empty podium roof as elements that require special attention. He also feels that some sort of high-tech stage would be appropriate, something that could be raised and lowered, rather than wheeled in an out.
"I haven't read the full competition brief," Payne says, "but I know there will be tough restrictions. There should be; it represents a fantastic moment in Toronto history. But you've got to have the courage to intervene meaningfully."
As Brown notes, "There are lots of hidden spaces in the square, and lots of lost space. We need to uncover them." He also believes the west side of the square, now a grassy lawn with a smattering of trees, is "looking for idea."
He suggests an "urban forest." Many might also like to move the Peace Garden, a well-intentioned but somewhat intrusive addition from the 1980s, to a new home in this space.
According to landscape architect Janet Rosenberg, "Nathan Phillips Square has outgrown its facilities, and its original design. There's a lot there that's good, but there's a lot that isn't used. In Toronto, we're so far behind in knowing how to deal with our public spaces.
"I think it needs to be friendlier; people only go for specific reasons. You want people to know how to get in from Queen St. The podium roof is vacant space; it needs something brilliant to bring it to life. I like the raised walkways, but they have to programmed. You don't want a Frank Gehry or a Daniel Libeskind involved; the architecture's already strong enough. Whatever's done has to be done with great sensitivity."
Brown and Storey would like the competition to go even further. "It's an opportunity to create a whole zone from Osgoode Hall to Old City Hall to the Eaton Centre, Trinity Square and beyond," Storey says. "It's all disconnected. We could have a larger civic precinct."
"City Hall is an incredible building," Brown adds. "In a sense what we're saying is that it's looking for a new environment, a new presence."
He's right.
Come to think of it, why stop at Nathan Phillips? The rest of the city is just as much in need of revitalization as the square. Perhaps the competition could be expanded to include all Toronto. That would be something.
But it might cost more than $40 million.
AoD
T
tudararms
Guest
"Brown and Storey would like the competition to go even further. "It's an opportunity to create a whole zone from Osgoode Hall to Old City Hall to the Eaton Centre, Trinity Square and beyond," Storey says. "It's all disconnected. We could have a larger civic precinct."
To me, this is the most important statement in the article. So much of the talk lately about NPS harkens back to the past, to a time of former glory. NPS definately needs spiffing up and a bit of a make-over, but the time has truly come for the sort of vision and mass urban planning indicated above. This is truly the heart of the city, the crossroads that connects so many different neighbourhoods, and there is so much potential here. I hope it gets the treatment it deserves and needs.
To me, this is the most important statement in the article. So much of the talk lately about NPS harkens back to the past, to a time of former glory. NPS definately needs spiffing up and a bit of a make-over, but the time has truly come for the sort of vision and mass urban planning indicated above. This is truly the heart of the city, the crossroads that connects so many different neighbourhoods, and there is so much potential here. I hope it gets the treatment it deserves and needs.
B
building babel
Guest
We have nodes of well designed buildings, or parks, and a BIA generated mixture of street furniture and local branding initiatives that depend on the wealth and design savvy of the BIA's involved. Then we have a City Hall that is making grand gestures about outsourcing the design of street furniture for the city as a whole, and introducing new street signage designs that I don't think is part of that process, while at the same time continuing to do monstrous things on a small, local level with street poles and signs. So many overlapping and apparently contradictory layers ...