sixrings
Senior Member
I wouldn't pay for it either if I was her
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- Thread starter denfromoakvillemilton
- Start date
crs1026
Senior Member
She should be careful what she asks for. It would be awfully easy to make the 427 a toll route, and integrate with 407. 410/403 also. And yes, if we did that, Mississauga should be a recipient of the revenue. Perhaps they could use it to fund the Crosstown extension to the airport.
But it's a childish bit of rhetoric all the same.
- Paul
But it's a childish bit of rhetoric all the same.
- Paul
W. K. Lis
Superstar
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Why the heck would Mississauga pay for Crosstown West to the airport? Nobody in Mississauga will use it.
crs1026
Senior Member
It will be used by people from the 416 going to work in Mississauga. Isn't that her argument?
- Paul
TransitBart
Senior Member
I wonder what leads people to make such declarative statements. It's not like the justification could not be found for higher order transit in Mississauga.
Or in the face of global warming, will Toronto be on he bus and Mississauga exempted and allowed to drive their cars?
W. K. Lis
Superstar
The airport terminals are in Mississauga, just like the Line 1 extension above Steeles runs through Vaughan. Both cities should be paying for the capital costs. Vaughan is already their portion of the capital costs of the Line 1 extension. If Mississauga doesn't want to pay for their portion of the capital costs, then Toronto should annex the airport.
Last I checked, people have been using the current 52A Lawrence West, 192 Airport Rocket, 300A Bloor-Danforth, and 332 Eglinton West buses both to and from the airport. See link. Some even been residents of Mississauga. Some even been visitors who just happened to use the airport located there.
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TransitBart
Senior Member
With all due respect to all the contributors, this is a stupid debate. It's about the same as had the province while building out the 400 highway series asked, "Now county, where would you like a divided highway to go and how much would you like to pay?"
Here is the plan. Here is where it's going. Here is what it costs. This is your part. That is what is going to happen.
Thus far, the paeans at Brampton City Hall have frustrated an inter-regional plan. That can't happen any more than Metrolinx gives a rats ass about whether I can sleep next to the Lakeshore East / Stoufville corridor. The trains are running and that is that.
Here is the plan. Here is where it's going. Here is what it costs. This is your part. That is what is going to happen.
Thus far, the paeans at Brampton City Hall have frustrated an inter-regional plan. That can't happen any more than Metrolinx gives a rats ass about whether I can sleep next to the Lakeshore East / Stoufville corridor. The trains are running and that is that.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Actually not if flipped over. What's wrong is her attempt to balance the case in the way she has.
The way to do that, and Miss. would be perfectly justified in doing this, is to to toll *Mississauga roads* that connect. Now if Toronto exempted Toronto drivers from the Gardiner tolls, she'd have a case, but that's not what's happening, at all.
She's going to get called on this, and not to her liking. Best she petition Queen's Park to give Mississauga (and perhaps other massive metropolises) their own Act (As with the Toronto Act, an extension of the Municipal Act with taxing powers) and start tolling where apt to recover costs and tweak traffic flow.
Those tweets are very valuable actually. I wonder if any other 905 mayors have been so careless as to tweet same?
Edit to Add: The more I think about this, since the Province is going to rubber stamp Toronto's request, is to just amend the present Municipal Act to include *any* municipality that wishes to toll a thoroughfare. Remember, even in the case of the Toronto Act, it requires Crown ascent, (and that's via the sitting regime), so it can't be wildly abused.
I like Crombie, she's generally quite level-headed, but that was a blunder...
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TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Over the past decades there have been three separate demand evaluations for an extension of Eglinton Line northwest to Pearson and each had independently determined that there was no notable demand for a light rail rapid transit connection to the airport. This would be the least used segment of the toronto rapid transit system, by a huge margin (we're talking a few hundred users at peak hour, at best)
The airport is a huge site with an unusual distribution of employment hours and employment sites, with employees coming more or less evenly from all around the region. Sticking a rail link in there with one or two stations isn't going to solve transport problems for all but a small fraction of the employees there (remember, this is an area the size of downtown Toronto). Leaders need to work on actual solutions to transportation challenges at the Airport, rather than haphazardly supporting rail connections, merely because building these rail connections to the airport makes intuitive sense.
What that likely means is a well thought out grid of frequent bus services around the Airport Corporate Centre linking to existing regional transit options and GO RER. And then, if those bus services are solving the airport's "last mile" problem and generating enough usage, perhaps an LRT connection to the airport can be justified. But as envisioned right now, an LRT link to the airport would be sparsely used and a waste of ~$500 Million.
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steveintoronto
Superstar
I haven't caught up with the following posts yet, but this is apples and oranges, albeit I believe the Miss Transitway intersects with this to get to the airport. W/o examining in detail, best we keep these two situations separate, for very different reasons. I agree with your point though, btw!
Let's flip that over, and put a new perspective on it:
*IF* that kind of money is being spent, it might be better to establish an LRT running over the present guideways UPX is using into the airport and connect an LRT to the Eglinton line at Eg/Weston (either as an intersection and/or run-throughs) and Bloor-Danforth subway @ Bloor Station with perhaps an extension later to Union, albeit that would be redundant with an RER doing that segment. The RER could then use the present UPX paths and existing tracks south from Airport Junction.
To add another connection along Eglinton west of Weston and then north in Mississauga to the airport really begs being the best use of massive investment. That LRT investment should be within Toronto save for the last leg into the airport.
Present UPX Sharyos could then be the initial west branch of the RER Bramalea to Union until further expansion and electrification. Using LRT into the airport would make for much easier track-work than adding in extra pairs for RER. Any necessary fly-overs/unders could be of a much tighter radius and gradient for LRT v heavy rail. LRT tracks could be almost at grade at present platforms to allow cross-platform transfers.
It would render the trip from Union as requiring a second transfer from RER to the northern segment of the LRT, but greatly simplify the use of the Weston Corridor.
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dowlingm
Senior Member
The 100 year window is useful in pointing out that the existing structure does have substantial maintenance costs without a dedicated/user-based funding source, increased further by the mayor's throwing money at getting them done faster.
dowlingm
Senior Member
Who is "we" in this proposal? Toronto only had Gardiner/DVP/Allen downloaded, right? 427 is still provincially owned/maintained?
salsa
Senior Member
More nonsense: Patrick Brown is calling the toll a "tax on the 905".
And there you have it. Brown's 905-specific wedge issue for the election.