[ssiguy2]

TC {except Eglinton} would be fine if it was part of the local service and rapid transit was built to those areas as well.
TC is local service and Toronto already has great local transit service it's the "rapid" part it is sadly lacking.
Basically TC except for SELRT is dead, no loss to Torontonians. A great plan but being so poorly instituted that is has done more harm than good. Now Toronto will have to go thru another grueling 5 years to just figure out what it wants to say nothing of building and paying for it.

 

[Chuck]

Ya seriously. There is no question that more subways need to be built, and it will only get more expensive with time. If we need to wait another year until the recession blows over, fine. Long term though, we'd be foolish to delay construction just because it subway costs so much to build today. Subways are not an option, deal with it now to get the construction over and done with. Thank god we built Sheppard when we did, as it would never have gotten built today.

I doubt that subway construction is any less affordable now than it was, relatively speaking, in the 1940s and 50s when the Yonge line was built. They did it then, and we must find a way now.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

1) Great Post
2) Nice to see a guy from Oshawa on here. Oshawa is one of my favorite burbs.

 

[Action Jackson]

1) Great Post
2) Nice to see a guy from Oshawa on here. Oshawa is one of my favorite burbs.

1) Thanks.

2) Its becoming more of a city all the time IMO. The Durham College/UOIT development has changed so much. Lots still needs to be done, but the city's center is starting to live again. There is an actual transit system here, and if you are in the older parts of town transit isn't all that bad, at least compared to most suburbs. I live in the Ritson/Rossland area, and the old GM plant on Ritson is gone (and a buyer for its redevelopment has been found) and the students have made it so that there are actually bars and clubs here now. It's still a suburb of Toronto and its still pretty run-down in many places, but give it a decade, particularly with the new UOIT facilities in downtown and the new Trent facility, and this town might actually look like something.

As for me, I'm a person who is proud of being from Toronto. (OK, I'm in the suburbs, so what. ) Whenever somebody pops off about Toronto, I have a simple response: "There are two types of people in Canada. Those who live in Toronto and those who wish they lived in Toronto." I think many of the people who don't like us are that way because Toronto is the economic and cultural capital of our incredible country, and others are envious of us. I know some aren't that way, but some I know are. That's why I like it here.

 

[Tewder]

TC {except Eglinton} would be fine if it was part of the local service and rapid transit was built to those areas as well.

Yes, it isn't an 'either/or' scenario. Toronto needs both streetcars and subways.... but it needs the basic subway grid first with a streetcar grid designed to coordinate with it. The problem with TC - as I see it at least - is that it claims we do not need subways which is so clearly mistaken. Torontonians and GTAers know this because they use the system daily, and this is why TC has not been embraced. TC is a political choice because no politician wants to be on the hook for the kind of long term investment of resources a subway network requires, and no politician is really thinking much beyond the next election anyway. Toronto is paying the price for this lack of leadership. Still, the city gets the leadership it deserves. There should be riots at Queen's Park and City Hall every day over transit and gridlock but instead polite, apathetic Canadians resign themselves to increasingly long commutes while city budgets are wasted....

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

1) Thanks.

2) Its becoming more of a city all the time IMO. The Durham College/UOIT development has changed so much. Lots still needs to be done, but the city's center is starting to live again. There is an actual transit system here, and if you are in the older parts of town transit isn't all that bad, at least compared to most suburbs. I live in the Ritson/Rossland area, and the old GM plant on Ritson is gone (and a buyer for its redevelopment has been found) and the students have made it so that there are actually bars and clubs here now. It's still a suburb of Toronto and its still pretty run-down in many places, but give it a decade, particularly with the new UOIT facilities in downtown and the new Trent facility, and this town might actually look like something.

As for me, I'm a person who is proud of being from Toronto. (OK, I'm in the suburbs, so what. ) Whenever somebody pops off about Toronto, I have a simple response: "There are two types of people in Canada. Those who live in Toronto and those who wish they lived in Toronto." I think many of the people who don't like us are that way because Toronto is the economic and cultural capital of our incredible country, and others are envious of us. I know some aren't that way, but some I know are. That's why I like it here.

Wow, great post again. I always told people Oshawa was better then many places such as Milton or Vaughan. The city is coming back alive and its good to see.


I live in Oakville (I know, rich guy) but I say I'm from Toronto. I actually love the city. Don't let the haters on thestar.com/torontosun.com get you down. Toronto is the best. And they know it, otherwise they would not talk about us.

 

[GraphicMatt]

If you suburbs guys love Toronto so much you should move here. We can always use more positive people who stay informed about city issues.

 

[Action Jackson]

If you suburbs guys love Toronto so much you should move here. We can always use more positive people who stay informed about city issues.

If I had the money and could reliably get to Durham College from inside TO, I probably would. When I get done with school, perhaps. Besides, one can be a guy who likes Toronto who lives in its suburbs, ya know.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

If you suburbs guys love Toronto so much you should move here. We can always use more positive people who stay informed about city issues.

I am broke. Otherwise I would be down there so fast. My Mom does not want me to leave home either(I'm 19)

 

[Electrify]

I oppose Transit City for this season. What Toronto needs is not a vast system of light rail. It has its place and purpose, but on Eglinton what is needed is a subway. The city needs a downtown relief line. Fixing the Sheppard Subway is needed, too. But one of Ford's major appeals is that he wants to make life easier for drivers - though removing streetcars (and buying several hundred buses to fix the capacity loss) is idiotic. But did Miller and company ever even care about this? Nope. They acted as if increasing traffic congestion was the goal.

Welcome to UT. I wanted to point out that when done properly, LRT is not slow. In fact, it is just as fast as metro rail. A while back I created a thread of videos showing what light rail rapid transit is all about:

http://urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?12557-Videos-of-Light-Rail-RAPID-Transit

I also agree with you about Miller and co. acting as if creating congestion was the goal. To me, the difference between Miller and Thomson to me is that Thomson's goal was to reduce auto dependence, Miller was anti-car for the sake of being anti-car. Miller was about increasing auto taxes (which can be avoided by simply living outside the city limits), removing traffic lanes, tearing down highways, etc. Sarah Thomson wanted to implement tolls during rush hour into the core, when transit service is at its peak into downtown thus a viable alternative was available.

To use the streetcar suburb of Parkdale as an example, think of a place like Lansdowne and Queen. this place is relatively far from downtown, yet has a complete, relatively straight walking street with retail and residential uses that goes directly into downtown. This was not created under a pedestrian only based system, or a motor coach based one, It was built based on an electric rail system. The rails are why queen street is what it is today, the rails are why queen street is where it is, and isn't, say, two blocks north and all curly-cue like the newer motor-based suburban speedways. The rails are why all those people are there, its what their community is centered around, it is a lifeline, and it is a physical connection to downtown, the subway, union station and the rest of the country.

I think you're putting too much weight into the streetcar's effect on the neighbourhood. Queen St was the former Highway 2 before the Gardiner Expressway, and was the main west-east route through Toronto. This was one of the main reasons why many streetcar suburbs were located along Queen and Yonge. These communities were built to be more walkable because cars were either not commercially available, or very difficult to operate. Therefore your transportation options included walking, horse-drawn vehicles, or streetcars. While development styles changed after WWII, you can still find many small towns and communities throughout Ontario, the GTA, and even outer parts of the 416 which are clearly the product of pre-car development.