lionel
New Member
What I find most interesting here is that 500 provincial civil servants are being tasked to spend their Monday afternoon campaigning for Smitherman - at the taxpayer's expense.
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- Thread starter taal
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What I find most interesting here is that 500 provincial civil servants are being tasked to spend their Monday afternoon campaigning for Smitherman - at the taxpayer's expense.
Calrissian
Active Member
Admittedly, I too have watched him when he's calm and talks with a softer demeanor, and I think, he can be quite personable. And when he came up in the polls and was responding to reporters saying "we're humbled by it, and are just going to continue to work hard" I thought, he should always take that approach... but he's got that Jeckyll and Hyde in him... hard to tell which one you're going to get...
That and his old, out dated thinking, its not leadership material.
taal
Senior Member
Yep! Somewhat surprised that hasn't got more coverage as of yet .
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
What bothers me in these contests is how policy can be lost in the sound bites. E-health and the sponsership scandal are examples. These are completely ligitimate rallying points to criticise the character or performance of people involved but my problem is that the policy gets lost in the drama.
How many people pumping their fists about e-health recognize that underneath the "scandal" e-health is about saving taxpayers money and creating efficiencies in the system? Infact the policy, however badly or well implemented, is about Ontario playing catch-up with better systems around the world. My fear is that these initiatives then become politically tainted, especially when those claiming to champion fiscal prudence and waste in the system are turned into their biggest detractors. Want to tar and feather Smitherman for it? Sure be my guest but don't hate the policy because of the man.
An example at the municipal level is the incongruence of people, such as Ford, who claim to be fiscally prudent but want to expand the police force. This is totally incongruent. If you are interested in maintaining the status quo in police services or interested in expand their mandate you cannot claim to be fiscally prudent. Period.
How many people pumping their fists about e-health recognize that underneath the "scandal" e-health is about saving taxpayers money and creating efficiencies in the system? Infact the policy, however badly or well implemented, is about Ontario playing catch-up with better systems around the world. My fear is that these initiatives then become politically tainted, especially when those claiming to champion fiscal prudence and waste in the system are turned into their biggest detractors. Want to tar and feather Smitherman for it? Sure be my guest but don't hate the policy because of the man.
An example at the municipal level is the incongruence of people, such as Ford, who claim to be fiscally prudent but want to expand the police force. This is totally incongruent. If you are interested in maintaining the status quo in police services or interested in expand their mandate you cannot claim to be fiscally prudent. Period.
Glen
Senior Member
Yes an efficient electronic record keeping system is in the public interest. The problem with e-health is not only did we spend over a billion dollars and have little to show of it, even if it was completed it should not have cost that much. Too many people lose site of this. As long as the cause is good they will continue to overlook major issues in implementing them. That is the problem. With money flying out of the till, he should have, at some point, needed to see some progress. We are seeing the same thing repeat with the Samsung deal.
Criticising the e-health scandal is not the same as criticising e-health.
Coltaine79
Active Member
It's true.. he's much LESS harmful than Sarah Palin will be, or GWB was, or Stephen Harper is.
That said, in a discussion regarding the future direction of our city, we're presented with two substantially different narratives. We (Smitherman supporters) have chosen the one which we believe will lead to our ideal vision of Toronto.
We have no interest in the vision presented by Rob Ford. We disagree with many (most) of his premises; how can we accept any of his conclusions?
taal
Senior Member
Taking a step back - who are you to say 1 billion was too much or too little for that mater - do you know everything that was involved. Too often articles in the media, to grab attention (their sole purpose) use these magic numbers - 1 million / 1billion ... so on so forth - again if you know the details and everything that was involved - sure, please comment. If not though, again, what exactly should this have cost? Corporations spend hundreds of millions on infrastructure all the time. But again if you know the details - and can state an appropriate amount - okay, that's a valid argument.
Another popular media grab is the salary of some high level government officials (hydro / ...) outrange typically follows when their salaries are states but the majority of the time they get paid less then what one would in the corporate world ... and why should that be the case ?
Riverman
Active Member
I hadn't seen this, how wonderful. Thank you so much.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
Steve Munro posted this specifically regarding the stuff about transit, but I thought this list of questions to the city asked by candidates was fascinating in general:
http://www.toronto.ca/elections/candidates/candidates-questions.htm
http://www.toronto.ca/elections/candidates/candidates-questions.htm
fiendishlibrarian
Active Member
"What I find most interesting here is that 500 provincial civil servants are being tasked to spend their Monday afternoon campaigning for Smitherman - at the taxpayer's expense."
They're very much at risk of breaking the law while doing this, as this activity is strictly regulated under the Public Service Act of Ontario. They would have to receive prior permission under very limited circumstances in order to do this, which suggests that this was something planned well in advance. See part V of the Act:
Link
They're very much at risk of breaking the law while doing this, as this activity is strictly regulated under the Public Service Act of Ontario. They would have to receive prior permission under very limited circumstances in order to do this, which suggests that this was something planned well in advance. See part V of the Act:
Link
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Glen
Senior Member
The software itself is not that expensive. I do know some people who have worked on similar sized projects for the Provincial government. The real cost is in the training. One friend of mine, an extremely competent and experienced developer, suggested that the software itself would cost less than 80 million. Terek Fatah made similar comments on CFRB recently. He has experience both in IT and health. Here is an alternative that is free ..........
http://oscarservice.com/
As to your second point, if we compare executive compensation levels to those in Germany, both public and private ones looked vastly over compensated here.
Coltaine79
Active Member
When i read the Star article, I noticed it said they were "provincial Liberal staffers". That didn't sound like prov gov employees to me - it sounded like political staffers - surely political staffers are not paid for by taxpayers? Presumably these are the same people who will be "mobilized" by McGuinty to help him win another term next year.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
Yeah, I think they mean people who work for the Ontario Liberal Party and not the government.
taal
Senior Member
Yea I noticed it just now as well ... prepare for a spin on that one by both opponents though ...
Glen
Senior Member
They are provincial employees.