[wyliepoon]

I was quite fascinated by the Niagara Parks Commission People Mover during my trip to Niagara Falls during the Civic Holiday. It was my first time riding the People Mover, and I must say I was quite impressed... its frequency was comparable to many urban bus routes (although probably not up to TTC standards, especially in the north around Queenston), most of the buses are well-air conditioned, and don't look as though they've aged a bit.

Given its unique vehicles, stops and fare media, I think the People Mover fits the definition of Bus Rapid Transit (BRT), even though it doesn't appear in Wikipedia's list of Canadian BRT systems.

If it is a BRT, it's probably the most low-tech BRT that I've seen. No fancy TVM or smart card here... just buy a sticker from a Parks Commission gift shop or ticket booth that will be your POP for an entire day. No automated stop announcements, but stops are announced from the rear car by a student working a summer job. Stop requests are not handled by bells and lights, but by calling out to the driver. The People Mover doesn't have low-floor vehicles, but that is compensated by a footstool bought from the local Walmart that when placed on the road reduces the height from the doors to the sidewalk. Vehicles are not equipped with rollsigns or LED destination signs, but a cheap white card in the driver's cab tells you where the bus is going.

What this system might need to turn into a real BRT might be some "next bus" electronic signs at all stops, and definitely a dedicated bus lane around the Falls area. However, it might be better to scratch the true BRT idea and build a monorail or even a subway for Niagara Falls (using the TBM from the OPG Niagara Falls tunnel project).

 

[Cast_Member]

Yeah, the bus is low tech. This was considered to be the bus of the future 80's style. If a BRT is going to built and I think its cheaper, the fleet should be replaced. Mostly for disabled riders.

 

[EnviroTO]

Without a private right-of-way I don't think it can be termed a BRT system. I don't consider VIVA a BRT yet although that is where they are heading.

 

[catcher_of_cats]

However, it might be better to scratch the true BRT idea and build a monorail or even a subway for Niagara Falls (using the TBM from the OPG Niagara Falls tunnel project).

A subway in Niagara Falls? You got to ******* kidding us.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Yeah, I agree with EnviroTO, I only consider it BRT if it's got some sort of ROW. I do find it cool how absolutely low-tech it is, but it's definitely not "BRT." It's just like a lower-tech version of Viva, and I hate saying it, but Viva is not really BRT. At least it isn't until the ROWs get built, and I'm very intrigued as to how well service will actually improve with those.

And did you just suggest a monorail/subway for Niagara Falls?!! I don't exactly disagree with you there, but I'd like to see exactly how the City/Cities do first.
What I see right now is that the Cities of Niagara Falls (especially the Canadian side) are in a kind of transition stage, slowly fleshing out their massive tourism potential. If it keeps doing this, the two cities could grow hugely in both population and tourism. Growth in both these areas might even warrant more than one subway, and a subway to connect the two cities (which would probably be a planning and logistics nightmare.)

But I'd really like to see how this region develops in the next 30 years. Using the Falls and Tourism as a backbone, the two cities could actually become very large, dense urban centers. Maybe then, a subway would make sense. But until then, maybe they should just focus on getting in some bus lanes or HOV lanes in.

Oh crap, this thread just made me start fantasizing about a Niagara Falls metropolis. Must... resist...

 

[JasonParis]

Is that the ghost of MikeToronto coming back to haunt the forum?

 

[DavidH]

YAnd did you just suggest a monorail/subway for Niagara Falls?!!

I don't know, if Springfield can have a monorail, why can't Niagara Falls? Plus, they'll be able to get Leonard Nimoy for the opening ceremonies. Oh, the potential!

 

[Second_in_pie]

I don't know, if Springfield can have a monorail, why can't Niagara Falls? Plus, they'll be able to get Leonard Nimoy for the opening ceremonies. Oh, the potential!

Haha, that does have a lot of potential!

Well, as I said in my previous post, I think Niagara Falls has a huge potential for greatness. With a Tourist-based CBD overlooking the falls (consisting mostly of high-rise hotels, international stores, restaurants and other services) and mid to high rise condos circling this CBD, you could have a number of rapid transit options that would actually make sense.

But I'm pretty sure I'm just plain dreaming when I think of huge-city Niagara Falls with an economy fueled by hydroelectricity and beauty. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm going to stop thinking about it

 

[catcher_of_cats]

Second in Pie, have you actually been to Niagara Falls and visited the non-tourism areas? More importantly, have you actually travelled to the abandoned, burnt out shell of Niagara Falls, New York that has lost something like 2/3 of its population since the 1950s? I am not trying to be an a** but I think that a forest of supertalls will be built in Toronto's Rosedale before an urban fantasy becomes fact in Niagara.

PS I do love to fantasize about the urban potential of space.

 

[Second_in_pie]

^^ Yep, and that's why I consider it fantasizing

But Niagara Falls is a really big tourist destination, and some kind of monorail thing from the falls and across the riverfront could be both an effective people mover/transit thingey and an attraction of it's own.

 

[DavidJamesTO]

I could see a Disney-style (or more likely Expo 67 style) monorail in the touristy section of Niagara Falls, but a subway would definitely be pushing it.

 

[ShonTron]

This would actually be a great place for a heritage streetcar run - why not put some PCCs and Witts to use on the old CP ROW? Downtown, it can make use of city streets to access the VIA station and also provide exposure to tehe redevelopment efforts of Queen Street. We could send out Adam Giambrone to play with his streetcars.

 

[Dan416]

This would actually be a great place for a heritage streetcar run - why not put some PCCs and Witts to use on the old CP ROW? Downtown, it can make use of city streets to access the VIA station and also provide exposure to tehe redevelopment efforts of Queen Street. We could send out Adam Giambrone to play with his streetcars.

LOL we can GIVE Adam Giambrone there. He can build all the LRTs there he wants. Luckily there's no LRT from NF to TO so he can never get back.

 

[Twisted Son of Gumby]

Growth in both these areas might even warrant more than one subway, and a subway to connect the two cities (which would probably be a planning and logistics nightmare.)

Not to mention a HUGE cross border security issue.

 

[kEiThZ]

The NPM seems ripe to be converted to a tram or streetcar. If it was placed by the curb, it would be so much more convenient and comfortable than the buses they have today....which aren't bad but can get crowded during busier times.