[gabe]

No one should be surprised by this - the tube was still packed when ours were already emptied - and they are closer to the hot spots (Italy, France, Germany) than we are. The government simply didn't act early enough, and the population didn't take it seriously enough.

AoD

Also the pubs were packed, while our pubs/restaurants were all shutdown.

People ignore coronavirus warnings and party in pubs for St Patrick's Day

The government has advised people to avoid 'pubs, restaurants, theatres and cinemas' as the Covid-19 pandemic spreads.

metro.co.uk

 

[W. K. Lis]

I would add the UK to that list. They are still getting hit hard by Covid. We don't want them bringing that over here.

Where did it go wrong for the UK on coronavirus?

The British government has claimed a win in its battle against coronavirus.

www.cnn.com

U.K. appears to be on track for one of Europe's worst COVID-19 death tolls

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/uk-worst-death-tolls-1.5547584

COVID-19: U.K. says kids with no underlying conditions have died from syndrome linked to virus

Experts are investigating a possible link between the coronavirus and clusters of severe inflammatory disease among infants

nationalpost.com

Didn't UK's House of Commons vote themselves out of the EU. When I mentioned "EU", I'm assuming without "UK".

 

[Richard White]

Travel restrictions, due to COVID-19, to and from the USA should stay in place long after restrictions to and from other countries and regions of the world, such as the EU.

Not helpful. That would effectively kill the airline industry. I agree with you about the US as they are a backwards nation who put money ahead of peoples health. The EU is much more citizen and science focused, leading to better containment and control of the virus.

I think that travel restrictions should be on a case by case basis and not a blanket ban. Some countries are better than others and travel restrictions should reflect that.

 

[Richard White]

I wouldn't want to be in any political leader's shoes right now - we're quickly reaching a point where they'll have to choose between causing more deaths or completely strangling the economy.

Good point and I think this is why Doug Ford is cautiously reopening more than originally planned. The fact is if you keep the service industry closed for too long people will close up shop, government benefits or not. Keep in mind all these benefits that Trudeau announces are merely just loans in need of paying back in the future.

If shops close up for too long they will end up being so far in debt that reopening is a moot point. People can only take on so much debt before they have to reopen and start bringing in money to pack some of it back.

Also, the average dental recall exam is 6 months and people still need to have essential medical appointments. You can only delay these things for so long before people's health is put at risk.

Damned you do and damned if you don't, it's a chicken and the egg situation but honestly if the economy is not opened up again soon there will not be much left to reopen.

 

[Richard White]

Right now, politicians around the world are at risk due to this pandemic. I can foresee lots of political upheaval around the world this year relating to the pandemic.

As more and more citizens are locked down and the pandemic handled differently in various nations it will be interesting to watch the US elections this year. I can honestly see Trump getting tossed this year because of his various comments.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Good point and I think this is why Doug Ford is cautiously reopening more than originally planned. The fact is if you keep the service industry closed for too long people will close up shop, government benefits or not. Keep in mind all these benefits that Trudeau announces are merely just loans in need of paying back in the future.

If shops close up for too long they will end up being so far in debt that reopening is a moot point. People can only take on so much debt before they have to reopen and start bringing in money to pack some of it back.

Also, the average dental recall exam is 6 months and people still need to have essential medical appointments. You can only delay these things for so long before people's health is put at risk.

Damned you do and damned if you don't, it's a chicken and the egg situation but honestly if the economy is not opened up again soon there will not be much left to reopen.

My take is that it is already a moot point - even if you reopen, most aren't going to bother - especially if the public perception is one of heightened risk. Couple that with the very real threat of a second wave, you'd end up with a real mess in your hands especially when your medical system is still weakened, when you still have PPE supply issues (nevermind a mixed societal willingness to use it) and when your testing and contact tracing still leave much to be desired. Medical appointments with clear guidelines and requirements around using PPE? Sure. General reopening? Maybe not. Can you imagine people riding en masse on transit even at 50% normal load? I can't.

I tend to think of this as a war footing - and screaming about getting back to normal doesn't help you win the war.

AoD

 

[Richard White]

My take is that it is already a moot point - even if you reopen, most aren't going to bother - especially if the public perception is one of heightened risk. Couple that with the very real threat of a second wave, you'd end up with a real mess in your hands especially when you medical system is still weakened, when you still have PPE supply issues (nevermind a mixed societal willingness to use it) and when your testing and contact tracing still leave much to be desired. Medical appointments with clear guidelines and requirements around using PPE? Sure. General reopening? Maybe not. Can you imagine people riding en masse on transit even at 50% normal load? I can't.

I tend to think of this as a war footing - and screaming about getting back to normal doesn't help you win the war.

AoD

True but if history has taught us anything it's that if you keep your citizens suffering indefinitely you could be toppled. Look at what happened in Russia... we we were stuck with the Soviet Union for 73 years.

I am not saying that will happen here but what I am saying is that if you keep restrictions in place for too long it could leave to civil unrest and/or people ignoring restrictions.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

True but if history has taught us anything it's that if you keep your citizens suffering indefinitely you could be toppled. Look at what happened in Russia... we we were stuck with the Soviet Union for 73 years.

I am not saying that will happen here but what I am saying is that if you keep restrictions in place for too long it could leave to civil unrest and/or people ignoring restrictions.

I wouldn't use Russia as an example considering the long-standing grievances and societal conditions are totally incomparable to what we have right now. What I think will happen is people (and the government) taking a wait and see approach - enough jurisdictions elsewhere with comparable conditions are trying to loosen up - we shall see how their experiments goes and decide accordingly.

AoD

 

[SunriseChampion]

Toppled? The Russian people suffered before 1917, kept suffering through murderous communism, and now suffer through kleptocratic oligarchy.

They have never toppled anything. Poor example.

 

[SunriseChampion]

You cant Trust The Swedes anymore...

Compared to Finland, Denmark and Norway they sort of have gone off the deep end on many things

Yeah, and if they actually do achieve herd immunity whilst we're still dicking around, looking for a vaccine for the next year or two......

 

[SunriseChampion]

So expectation is everyone sit at home till fall for a disease with a 1 percent death rate that can be mitigated by masks and social distancing?

Why sit at home?

I'm going bush camping asap.

One of the music festivals I was supposed to go to for a week this summer in Quebec is already cancelled so I'm making the time up on Georgian Bay granite.
Another one in September is still a go as of now....I hope it happens as they extended it for the first time this year!

I need granite and sun or I will die....not physically but my mind and soul will wither away (more than already! )

Just because international tourism will be shuttered doesn't mean we have to stay home.

Canada is massive and beyond beautiful. Travel here. I'm going on a 6-7 week western road trip next summer and spending at least three weeks on Georgian Bay this summer.

Time to spend our loot at home.

 

[Admiral Beez]

No, it's not. Travel to the island is restricted, not closed. There's a difference.

Pre-Travel Approval Process | Government of Prince Edward Island

See Non-Residents Travelling to and from PEI for information on current measures for travel to PEI. If you already have a pre-travel approval letter to enter PEI from the previous pre-travel approval process, you are still able to use the pre travel approval letter to enter PEI. You will be...

www.princeedwardisland.ca

It’s closed to nonessential travel, as shown in your link. We all know that’s what @Jasmine18 meant. No western boarder is entirely shut, otherwise food and essential supplies would not get through.

 

[lenaitch]

Why sit at home?

I'm going bush camping asap.

One of the music festivals I was supposed to go to for a week this summer in Quebec is already cancelled so I'm making the time up on Georgian Bay granite.
Another one in September is still a go as of now....I hope it happens as they extended it for the first time this year!

I need granite and sun or I will die....not physically but my mind and soul will wither away (more than already! )

Just because international tourism will be shuttered doesn't mean we have to stay home.

Canada is massive and beyond beautiful. Travel here. I'm going on a 6-7 week western road trip next summer and spending at least three weeks on Georgian Bay this summer.

Time to spend our loot at home.

Abso-effin-lootly! I made that decision a few years ago. Our little band of biker bandits used to vary our road trips between Canada and the US and I finally told them that if they go to the US, take pictures for me. Between that and my wife not willing to do a flight much over 3 hours and we're pretty much homebodies. I'm often amazed at folks who have been all over the world but never to Charlevois or north of Superior.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Toppled? The Russian people suffered before 1917, kept suffering through murderous communism, and now suffer through kleptocratic oligarchy.

They have never toppled anything. Poor example.

Russians have been suffering since before the Mongols invaded. That‘s why they’re so culturally different from the rest of the Caucasian world. They look like us, but always prefer the strongman despot.

 

[lenaitch]

It’s closed to nonessential travel, as shown in your link. We all know that’s what @Jasmine18 meant. No western boarder is entirely shut, otherwise food and essential supplies would not get through.

No, she said it was "closed to non residents", which it is not, and that's what I responded to.