[Richard White]

It's ok if he doesn't take the vax. And it will be ok when he can't get on a plane, go to a concert, a movie theatre or a hockey game. Or get on a bus, Or a wedding. Or a funeral.

As I said.. if you had read my follow up post. I have no problems getting the vaccine. I just think that if it is not mandated alot of people won't bother going multiple times.

You need to realise that waiting in line twice is a major inconvenience to those with mobility issues, transportation requirements (wheel trans, etc) and those with work related issues (some people cannot get two days off or cannot afford two days off without pay). One day is fine for most people but having people go twice is a problem for alot of people.

 

[picard102]

It's ok if he doesn't take the vax. And it will be ok when he can't get on a plane, go to a concert, a movie theatre or a hockey game. Or get on a bus, Or a wedding. Or a funeral.

Looking forward to the enforcement of that. Worked real well for masks so far.

 

[PinkLucy]

As I said.. if you had read my follow up post. I have no problems getting the vaccine. I just think that if it is not mandated alot of people won't bother going multiple times.

You need to realise that waiting in line twice is a major inconvenience to those with mobility issues, transportation requirements (wheel trans, etc) and those with work related issues (some people cannot get two days off or cannot afford two days off without pay). One day is fine for most people but having people go twice is a problem for alot of people.

We’re a long way away from having population hordes in major lineups. By the time it’s available to the general public the logistics will be sorted out.

 

[lenaitch]

Absolutely I see Trudeau doing that. Emergency Measure Act isn't necessary, just use Section 33 of the Charter and pass a law demanding that all residents of Canada be vaccinated. The NDP and Cons will go along with it.

Interesting angle. They would have to pass an amendment declaring their action under the Emergencies Act, Public Health Act or whatever legislation to be 'notwithstanding'. Sec. 33 has never been used by the federal government and I suspect action would be before the courts in days because it is still vulnerable to Sec. 1 ('reasonable limitations"). Given the massive scope this action would have, they might ask the SCOC to do a 'reference hearing'. Trying to act under the Emergencies Act itself would violate the Act.

The opposition would likely support it because they would view it as political suicide on the part of the government. Although most want this thing over, the concept of forced medication might be seen as a bridge to far.

CF isn’t nearly large enough to handle a nationwide vaccination effort alone.
AoD

I agree. Other than bodies, an org structure and some logistics, mostly aviation, I'm not sure what people think they could bring to the table. To the best of my knowledge they have no ground logistics, available warehousing (deep cold or otherwise) or medical services of a scale that would be required.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Another point - storage temperature of the putative vaccine. -80C is a hassle, but not ridiculously exotic. It's well within the capability of liquid nitrogen dewars (you can even get those on Amazon).

AoD

 

[Richard White]

Another point - storage temperature of the putative vaccine. -80C is a hassle, but not ridiculously exotic. It's well within the capability of liquid nitrogen dewars (you can even get those on Amazon).

AoD

Doable yes but we aren't talking small scale. The amount of cold storage required would make nitrogen quite scarce.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Doable yes but we aren't talking small scale. The amount of cold storage required would make nitrogen quite scarce.

LN2 is produced and used in industrial amounts I believe - I can't imagine it being a major bottleneck.

AoD

 

[Richard White]

LN2 is produced and used in industrial amounts I believe - I can't imagine it being a major bottleneck.

AoD

A fair point.

 

[Jasmine18]

the govt already said they won't make the vaccine mandatory.

 

[lenaitch]

I did a quick search for 'deep cold storage facilities' and found the attached an interesting sources;

B.9 – The Cold Chain and its Logistics | The Geography of Transport Systems

The cold chain involves the transportation of temperature sensitive products along a supply chain through thermal and refrigerated packaging methods and the logistical planning to protect the integrity of these shipments.

transportgeography.org

Although they do reference 'dry ice' and Nitrogen, the generally accepted industry standard for 'cold storage' is -30*C. I'm not an HAVC tech, but imagine using dry ice and Nitrogen on an industrial scale (i.e. not something laboratory sized), would require specialized equipment and facilities. If it is of 'warehouse' scale, it would certainly have to be automated (people can't be expected to work at that temperature) and that automation would bring it's own challenges.

One thing we don't know - or at least I haven't seen - is the safe period between storage and injection. Maintaining such a low temperature in a distributed or mobile environment will be even more challenging.

All that to say that, even if it do-able, I'm not aware that it currently exists on the necessary scale.

 

[tiffer24]

Ontario is reporting 1,388 cases of #COVID19. Locally, there are 520 new cases in Toronto, 395 in Peel, 100 in York Region, 72 in Halton and 50 in Niagara. There are 781 more resolved cases and over 29,100 tests completed.

 

[Richard White]

Ontario is reporting 1,388 cases of #COVID19. Locally, there are 520 new cases in Toronto, 395 in Peel, 100 in York Region, 72 in Halton and 50 in Niagara. There are 781 more resolved cases and over 29,100 tests completed.

God I hope we get locked back down. Things were going well in Ontario during Stage One and partially through Stage 2 but Doug Ford had to open everything up again..

I get that businesses are failing , it is not ideal and yes the economy will suffer but in the long run there is no politician alive that can stand by and do nothing while thousands of people get sick every day.

Eventually, if we hit between 1500-2000 cases a day Ford will not have a choice but to lock things down again or face a revolt.

 

[gabe]

We are on the path to 2000 cases a day. Wait till Christmas comes. My family has already cancelled Christmas dinner this year. We will do gift drop offs out on the front step, but no indoor gatherings.

 

[Bayer]

A complete lockdown is inevitable, unless people make changes in their personal lives when they can: don't meet people from other households in an enclosed area, don't go to bars, restaurants and gyms, avoid public transit, etc. Parsing rules to see what one can and cannot do is ridiculous, especially now, when Ford has entirely given up trying to protect Ontarians.

 

[picard102]

Eventually, if we hit between 1500-2000 cases a day Ford will not have a choice but to lock things down again or face a revolt.

A revolt from who?