[TrickyRicky]

I also think they should publish vaccination numbers. It’s a hopeful metric. I think government will be hesitant (like with everything else) because the numbers initially don’t make them look good.

I also feel the messaging coming from all levels of government is kind of disingenuous now. We’re all supposed to use our individual agency to do the “right thing”. The longer the pandemIc drags on though the less convincing an argument “the right thing” becomes to the collective agency. That’s a fundamental principle of life to adapt to the environmental context.

If you want something to be a hard rule, create the rule and enforce it. After a while in a city under constant bombardment people stop looking up.

 

[afransen]

***NEWSFLASH****
Latest pictures from the French side of the Channel Tunnel.....

From link.

I watched that episode as a kid and found it pretty disturbing.

 

[lenaitch]

I'm already seeing articles in the media and elsewhere why Group X should be added to the priority list. Hope this doesn't turn into Titanic. At least here there will be a lifeboat seat for everybody - eventually.

 

[Johnny Au]

I'm already seeing articles in the media and elsewhere why Group X should be added to the priority list. Hope this doesn't turn into Titanic. At least here there will be a lifeboat seat for everybody - eventually.

...except that there are some who choose not to use the lifeboats and think they're confident enough to swim across the frigid Atlantic waters claiming that the lifeboats are cursed.

They are the anti-vax people, and thus, they are conspiracy theorists.

 

[Richard White]

I'm already seeing articles in the media and elsewhere why Group X should be added to the priority list. Hope this doesn't turn into Titanic. At least here there will be a lifeboat seat for everybody - eventually.

As selfish as it sounds, I do think the GTA should get priority nationwide along with Vancouver due to density. The simple fact is that the density in the GTA is higher than anywhere else in Canada making transmission that much easier.

Places like Northern Ontario or the Yukon where people are 20 KM apart are at a lower risk of transmission and community spread compared to places like the GTA where you have thousands of people per kilometer.

 

[Richard White]

They are the anti-vax people, and thus, they are conspiracy theorists.

My aunt was one of those. She once read on facebook that there would be a protest by doctors relating to Covid-19 and the various restrictions. She swore for weeks that there would be a "march on Queens Park by doctors" speaking out against the lockdown and various infection control measures.

When a Covid-19 case was confirmed in her apartment building she said it was overblown meanwhile she does not wear a mask in or around her building. She was also annoyed at her building management because they would not identify the infected individual.

She even thinks that covid is a hoax and that the vaccine is a means to control people.

She's not allowed at our home.

 

[lenaitch]

As selfish as it sounds, I do think the GTA should get priority nationwide along with Vancouver due to density. The simple fact is that the density in the GTA is higher than anywhere else in Canada making transmission that much easier.

Places like Northern Ontario or the Yukon where people are 20 KM apart are at a lower risk of transmission and community spread compared to places like the GTA where you have thousands of people per kilometer.

I prefer the consideration of vulnerability or risk vs. density; i.e. elderly, healthcare and LTC workers, etc. The patients and staff at a LTC facility in Mattawa are just as vulnerable as one in downtown Toronto and, in my mind, take precedence over the need to go to malls again. As well, many of the remote FN communities have elevated levels of pre-existing conditions. Of course, this ignores the political realities of doing regional distribution. No system will be perfect or make everybody happy.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I prefer the consideration of vulnerability or risk vs. density; i.e. elderly, healthcare and LTC workers, etc. The patients and staff at a LTC facility in Mattawa are just as vulnerable as one in downtown Toronto and, in my mind, take precedence over the need to go to malls again. As well, many of the remote FN communities have elevated levels of pre-existing conditions. Of course, this ignores the political realities of doing regional distribution. No system will be perfect or make everybody happy.

Indeed - it should be about protection of those whose lives are most at risk - and those who are most at risk of exposure and spreading it to those whose lives are most at risk. It's pretty clear which risk groups those are.

AoD

 

[Richard White]

Indeed - it should be about protection of those whose lives are most at risk - and those who are most at risk of exposure and spreading it to those whose lives are most at risk. It's pretty clear which risk groups those are.

AoD

That was my point essentially. By focusing efforts on the densest pockets of the country first you can protect the greatest number of people. This in turn helps in preventing spread across Canada exponentially.

Let's be real here, people will travel outside Toronto and it's better to vaccinate alot of people who could infect high risk individuals before they can spread it across Canada.

I'm not a medical expert but dense population centers are a fertile breeding ground for community spread which is why the GTA has over 1000 cases each day.

Focusing efforts on inoculating people in the GTA will snuff out the virus in greater numbers before the proverbial Corona Mona can spread it elsewhere.

Vaccinating 20000 people across Ontario who may not travel outside their homes or come in contact with others is not as prudent as vaccinating 20000 in Toronto who will likely see others and travel.

People in the GTA are more likely to contact and spread the virus to high risk environments and people compared to low density areas. That needs to be considered.

 

[lenaitch]

people will travel outside Toronto

people across Ontario who may not travel outside their homes

So, it seems the logic seems to be that since many residents in GTA have demonstrated a reduced ability or willingness to follow the rules should be rewarded. It is the viral density (or potential) in the health/LTC facilities that should be knocked down first so the risks to the lives of patients, staff and their families, who are exposed to these petri dishes everyday, is reduced.

 

[Northern Light]

I prefer the consideration of vulnerability or risk vs. density; i.e. elderly, healthcare and LTC workers, etc. The patients and staff at a LTC facility in Mattawa are just as vulnerable as one in downtown Toronto and, in my mind, take precedence over the need to go to malls again. As well, many of the remote FN communities have elevated levels of pre-existing conditions. Of course, this ignores the political realities of doing regional distribution. No system will be perfect or make everybody happy.

Hospitals are a leading source of spread of Covid, to their staff and their patients; sometimes this is known and mitigated; but often people may go back out into the community and unknowingly spread the virus.

It makes sense to prioritize those working in hospitals and LTCs.

As opposed to narrow geography, it makes sense to look at those institutions known level of Covid exposure in prioritizing rollouts.

The difference, in hospital or LTC rollout time should be no more than 2-4 months tops; and everyone in these settings takes priority over the general community (excepting those with high vulnerabilities).

 

[TrickyRicky]

It’s good water-cooler talk but ultimately it doesn’t really matter who they chose to go first; however, if we are speaking in the theoretical it is NOT clear who should be vaccinated first.

There are different outcomes you can optimize such as protecting vulnerable populations, containing spread, minimizing risks, compassionate grounds, equity etc.

For instance I fully support the government’s decision to vaccinate healthcare workers first because it’s both practical (preserving healthcare capacity) and fair (they are working under personal and professionally stressful situations). That said I believe it was a U of T model showed that preventing deaths it’s best to vaccinate the elderly in LTC; however, the slower the vaccine roll-out the more this shifts to prioritizing super-spreader demographics even over the elderly.

 

[Northern Light]

In the new winter edition of the U of T magazine, there's an article looking at U of T's pursuit of vaccines. While they are clearly lagging time wise, several candidate vaccines remain in development and may come forward in 2021.

The Search for a Vaccine - University of Toronto Magazine

U of T scientists are pursuing a made-in-Canada solution to end the pandemic

magazine.utoronto.ca

 

[tiffer24]

Ontario is reporting a record 2,447 cases and a 2nd-wave high of 49 deaths Thurs. The 7-day avg is up to a new record of 2,306 daily, or 111 weekly per 100,000. Labs report 64,592 completed tests, with 3.7% positive.

https://data.ontario.ca/dataset/status-of-covid-19-cases-in-ontario

 

[gabe]

Just stay home.......

https://twitter.com/x/status/1342104490510491651