tiffer24
Senior Member
Over the last 14 days, case counts in Ontario have gone up an average of 3.895 per cent each day but over the last three days it is closer to six per cent.
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- Thread starter AlvinofDiaspar
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Bayer
Senior Member
I am not saying hospitals shouldn't be nationalized, actually, but I suppose non-profit LTC residences would be preferable to the current situation. As far as the quality of care is concerned, I want it to be equal for everyone. I'm talking about nursing homes, not retirement homes.
gabe
Senior Member
That is horrifying. Ontario is headed in a doom spiral! 3000 to 6000 COVID cases per day if the Ford Gov continues to do nothing by mid-December
Richard White
Senior Member
If we hit 6000 cases a day in Ontario I can see Trudeau winning some brownie points and invoking the act. He could score points with the largest grouping of votes in Canada should he want to call an election.
He would look good coming to the aid of Ontarians while Ford hangs them out to dry.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Nationalizing hospitals would make their doctors and other staff salaried public servants, which is what the UK has. I don't know all the ins-and-outs of their system but apparently not one to emulate.
There also might be a free-trade agreement impact for nationalizing an industrial sector but I haven't researched it.
Not-for-profit LTCs operated by both government and non-government entities would have my vote. I would have little problem with for-profit facilities receiving a comparable per-resident rate so the well-heeled can enjoy their higher standard of care. You can't prohibit private for-profit care any more than you can prohibit private schools, and you can't make every facility equal any more than you can make the level of care at the Manitouwadge General Hospital the same as Sunnybrook.
What you can do is set standards. The key is establishing standards and actually enforcing them. As a post-retirement gig, I was involved in licencing investigations of employees of a government-regulated private industry - not the businesses themselves, that was another section (nothing to do with healthcare). The standards were there and clear, but the typical enforcement response to non-compliance was to repeatedly send them letters, normally just the same letter with the date changed. It doesn't take long before it is clear the regulator really doesn't mean it.
Bayer
Senior Member
Many hospitals are public in Québec, including in my home town of Granby (how professionnals are remunerated is another issue altogether - many doctors are actually salaried even in Ontario), but as far as private for-profit care is concerned, should it be allowed were long-term care considered an actual part of the health care system? Again I was not referring to retirement homes, where residents still enjoy a high level of independence, but to nursing homes caring for people who have lost their autonomy and require constant care. I agree with you when it comes to standards, to which I was alluding when I mentioned that quality of care should be equal for all residents.
It would also be desirable to open long-term care homes for people who require less intensive care but who can no longer live in the community. In Québec, they have what they call intermediate resources, for people with a light or moderate loss of autonomy. They are privately-owned and on contract with the government. My mother lives in one of those; they are smaller, more home-like and less "institutional" residences, where she has a private room. It is staffed with PSWs and a registered practical nurse; a social worker and a nutritionist from the local health services agency monitor her condition and the services she receives, and a doctor does house calls. Those people contact me regularly with updates. Intermediate resources are heavily subsidized; my mother pays the maximum fee of about $1,300/month. I don't believe there is anything equivalent to those in Ontario.
It would also be desirable to open long-term care homes for people who require less intensive care but who can no longer live in the community. In Québec, they have what they call intermediate resources, for people with a light or moderate loss of autonomy. They are privately-owned and on contract with the government. My mother lives in one of those; they are smaller, more home-like and less "institutional" residences, where she has a private room. It is staffed with PSWs and a registered practical nurse; a social worker and a nutritionist from the local health services agency monitor her condition and the services she receives, and a doctor does house calls. Those people contact me regularly with updates. Intermediate resources are heavily subsidized; my mother pays the maximum fee of about $1,300/month. I don't believe there is anything equivalent to those in Ontario.
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
I’m still watching the German numbers as a proxi for Ontario. That’s how I was confident in predicting earlier that we would be pushing towards 2000 cases a day
The difference seemingly between competent Western European nations such as Germany (France and England for instance are in the incompetent category) and us is that they seem to have higher and sharper wave amplitudes of shorter duration. Our waves peak lower but drag on for long durations.
Germany is at around 4x first-wave peak in daily cases. That would suggest we are going to follow them up to maybe 2400 per day here in Ontario. If Germany peaks there we will probably also peak around there. If Germany looses the plot entirely so will we.
The difference seemingly between competent Western European nations such as Germany (France and England for instance are in the incompetent category) and us is that they seem to have higher and sharper wave amplitudes of shorter duration. Our waves peak lower but drag on for long durations.
Germany is at around 4x first-wave peak in daily cases. That would suggest we are going to follow them up to maybe 2400 per day here in Ontario. If Germany peaks there we will probably also peak around there. If Germany looses the plot entirely so will we.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
tiffer24
Senior Member
Ontario is reporting another 1,396 new cases Fri. The 7-day avg. is 
56 to a new high of 1,355 cases/day or 65 cases weekly per 100,000. 19 deaths brings that 7-day avg to a 2nd-wave high of 14.7/day. There are 106 active ICU cases, the data says.
56 to a new high of 1,355 cases/day or 65 cases weekly per 100,000. 19 deaths brings that 7-day avg to a 2nd-wave high of 14.7/day. There are 106 active ICU cases, the data says.Bayer
Senior Member
There is a difference from what I can tell. If you look at the Toronto supportive housing program, people must be older and have a higher level of autonomy. In intermediate resources, all meals and snacks, maintenance, laundry, and medication management/purchasing are taken care of, and there is no age limitation.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Eligibility for supportive housing programs differs between the agencies - and the range of services provided can depend on the client's level of autonomy as well (though my understanding is that they generally do not do heavy meal prep).
AoD
gabe
Senior Member
For the anti-maskers, anti lock-downers praising Sweden.
www.theguardian.com
“We consider the situation extremely serious,” the director of health and medical care services for Stockholm, Björn Eriksson, told the state broadcaster SVT this week. “We can expect noticeably more people needing hospital care over the coming weeks.”
Swedish surge in Covid cases dashes immunity hopes
Country has opted for light-touch, anti-lockdown approach since start of pandemic
www.theguardian.com
“We consider the situation extremely serious,” the director of health and medical care services for Stockholm, Björn Eriksson, told the state broadcaster SVT this week. “We can expect noticeably more people needing hospital care over the coming weeks.”
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
For the anti-maskers, anti lock-downers praising Sweden.
Swedish surge in Covid cases dashes immunity hopes
Country has opted for light-touch, anti-lockdown approach since start of pandemic
“We consider the situation extremely serious,” the director of health and medical care services for Stockholm, Björn Eriksson, told the state broadcaster SVT this week. “We can expect noticeably more people needing hospital care over the coming weeks.”
It's been a farce for awhile, just like that Barrington Declaration BS. Thus far the only successful strategies we have seen are the countries that have beaten it to the ground in transmissions. All those who accepted anything less had suffered blowouts even after a lull in cases.
AoD
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Ontario is reporting another 1,396 new cases Fri. The 7-day avg. is
440 are in both Toronto and Peel Region! Remember that Peel Region has HALF the population of Toronto.
lenaitch
Senior Member
There are also combined facilities that offer different levels of care on different floors, wards, buildings, etc. so people can 'progress' through the facility as they age.