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unimaginative2 said:
Ah, but regional rail routes would be a very important part of local rapid transit.
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Absolutely. In fact, for an urban area this size, Toronto is seriously lacking in long distance rapid transit. I've seen instances of people downtown perceiving Eglinton is the northern rim of the city, simply because it takes so long to get up there.

Thing is, the suburban express lines proposed would be a better fit for GO to handle in this model. The Etobicoke line is already proposed to become a regional metro in The Big Move, and the Scarborough one is to receive all day service with lobbying from Markham to turn it into a regional metro as well. The money saved from not pursuing these projects could be used to make the western leg of the Downtown line a reality, among other projects.
 
Electrify said:
Absolutely. In fact, for an urban area this size, Toronto is seriously lacking in long distance rapid transit. I've seen instances of people downtown perceiving Eglinton is the northern rim of the city, simply because it takes so long to get up there.

Thing is, the suburban express lines proposed would be a better fit for GO to handle in this model. The Etobicoke line is already proposed to become a regional metro in The Big Move, and the Scarborough one is to receive all day service with lobbying from Markham to turn it into a regional metro as well. The money saved from not pursuing these projects could be used to make the western leg of the Downtown line a reality, among other projects.
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I'd rather have Brampton and Markham GO REX lines (or Etobicoke and Scarborough, or whatever they end up being politically correctly called) than the DRL West, personally.

The primary purpose of the DRL West is to increase access to west end neighbourhoods, and to relieve congested surface routes. While this is noble, there are many other areas in the city facing the exact same problem. The Bloor and University-Spadina subways, while well used, aren't exactly packed to the brim, so relieving them with another subway isn't an immediate need.

This is very much contrasted with the DRL East, who's primary goal is to relieve the Yonge line, which is packed to the gills. Serving the neighbourhood it's passing through is a secondary goal.

Realistically, the only 2 subway projects that are really needed right now are the B-D extension to Sheppard (mainly because of the SRT lifespan crunch), and the DRL East. Similarly, the only LRT extension (beyond the initial Transit City lines) is the Eglinton LRT to the Airport, and maybe an LRT spur to Malvern.

If there was a "priority" OneCity map being made, I would have the following projects on it:

TTC: Bloor-Danforth extension to McCowan & Sheppard, DRL East from Eglinton to University or Spadina, Eglinton LRT extension to Pearson/Renforth Gateway, Sheppard East LRT spur to Malvern.
GO: Brampton-Markham GO REX, Lakeshore GO REX

The TTC should include the latter 2 in OneCity simply for the purpose of showing them, but they should be planned, funded, and operated by GO.

EDIT: Added a map of my priorities above
OneCity_revised_priority.jpg
 

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gweed123 said:
The primary purpose of the DRL West is to increase access to west end neighbourhoods, and to relieve congested surface routes. While this is noble, there are many other areas in the city facing the exact same problem. The Bloor and University-Spadina subways, while well used, aren't exactly packed to the brim, so relieving them with another subway isn't an immediate need.
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While this is true at the moment, I wouldn't totally throw out the agenda. It's better to be prepared than have to scurry and find money for it later when there's no more to squeeze out. The line wouldn't be top of the agenda, but if there was a budget set aside for it and when the project is up for review and there isn't enough ridership, it can be used toward a different transit line that will need it. However, when the project does come up for review to be built and there's demand. At least there's already money set aside for it. Spadina is currently being extended to Vaughn. The line hasn't opened up yet, so we don't know if over crowding will occur at St. George and Bloor after a few years of Spadina extension opening. Toronto is always doing patch work and takes forever to get anything built. It's been a few years that Yonge and Bloor has over crowding issues, yet there's still no funding for the relief line nor shovels in the ground.
 
just wait until a couple people fall onto the tracks because of overcrowding. then releif will come. (sad, but true)
 
AKS said:
While this is true at the moment, I wouldn't totally throw out the agenda. It's better to be prepared than have to scurry and find money for it later when there's no more to squeeze out. The line wouldn't be top of the agenda, but if there was a budget set aside for it and when the project is up for review and there isn't enough ridership, it can be used toward a different transit line that will need it. However, when the project does come up for review to be built and there's demand. At least there's already money set aside for it. Spadina is currently being extended to Vaughn. The line hasn't opened up yet, so we don't know if over crowding will occur at St. George and Bloor after a few years of Spadina extension opening. Toronto is always doing patch work and takes forever to get anything built. It's been a few years that Yonge and Bloor has over crowding issues, yet there's still no funding for the relief line nor shovels in the ground.
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Oh I have no doubt that it will be needed eventually, and I think it should definitely be studied, so that when it does come to the top of the list it can be fast-tracked. I'm just saying that for now, the projects that I listed are a higher priority.
 
Interesting discussion previously in this thread about the political and financial aspects of OneCity. Transit plans come and go, but this is the first one I've seen proposed that changes the way transit development is funded, which is huge.

I am very interested in the suggestion (in this thread) to create an independent body for planning, funding and developing public transportation, rather than leaving it in the hands of politicians, either in the province or the city. I wonder if this could finally end the transit development gridlock.
 
calimehtar said:
Interesting discussion previously in this thread about the political and financial aspects of OneCity. Transit plans come and go, but this is the first one I've seen proposed that changes the way transit development is funded, which is huge.

I am very interested in the suggestion (in this thread) to create an independent body for planning, funding and developing public transportation, rather than leaving it in the hands of politicians, either in the province or the city. I wonder if this could finally end the transit development gridlock.
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To be honest, I'm not really worried about what lines are or aren't in OneCity at this point, I just hope that some kind of financing mechanism gets approved. I'm a bit weary of the assessment increase tax, because it is predicated on housing prices continuing to increase, but I very much like the fact that they're talking about implementing SOMETHING to generate revenue. The lines can be worked out through consultation sessions (within the TTC, with Metrolinx, with the public), but the financing mechanism is pretty much exclusively in the political realm.

And yes, the key to ending transit gridlock is a) a steady financing stream that's independent of the "we'll fund it when we feel like it" attitudes of the Province and the Feds, and b) a body that removes transit planning somewhat from the political realm (where transit is used as a chip to score political points).
 
I've added the Lakeshore, Brampton, Barrie, and Stouffville GO lines to the map. The reason I've added these lines is because they are all hinted at becoming all day and frequent services - or if not proposed, fit a specific need.

Assuming that these lines end up getting frequent service, some observations do become apparent. First, to Fillip's dismay, I do feel that this renders the Waterfront West LRT a non-starter. Also, you can see why they are looking at stopping the DRL at Yonge rather than taking it through to Bloor, as regional metros look to cover the areas in between.

As mentioned earlier, the Scarborough Express also loses its importance if the Danforth line is extended, especially in my concept where it goes out to Markham. Finally, while the north-central corridor is lacking in regional metros, converting the Barrie line into such a route would literally neuter ridership on the University-Spadina line. If the Richmond Hill line was straighter and closer to Yonge, it could have provided needed relief for the subway and speed improvements for commuters of this corridor (from Yonge and Bernard in Richmond Hill, it takes 70 minutes by bus/subway to get downtown vs 35 by car in good traffic).
 

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gweed123 said:
To be honest, I'm not really worried about what lines are or aren't in OneCity at this point, I just hope that some kind of financing mechanism gets approved.
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I completely agree. This is the only part of OneCity that really matters. The lines on the OneCity map are meaningless and its almost certain none of them will be built as they appear and most will be very different.

But having a funding mechanism locked up means we will finally be continuously building. That't the critical change we need, continuous expansion. And I suspect it won't be that long before this gets wrapped into a regional funding scheme for the expansion and integration of the whole GTA transit network.
 
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