Johnny Au
Senior Member
It would be great to have this thread be renamed to simply “Ontario Science Centre” as we have moved on from just the pedestrian bridge.
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- Thread starter hawc
- Start date
Northern Light
Superstar
@AlexBozikovic 's take on the closure of the OSC is out.
www.theglobeandmail.com
He rightly calls out the spin here, and the wilful misrepresentation of the engineering report.
Unfortunately, in my eyes, he also includes a paragraph that is exceedingly partisan and will alienate a portion of his readership who might otherwise be sympathetic.
I'm not a Doug Ford voter, populism is not my shtick, nor am I socially conservative in the least, but I see no utility in taking aim at people whose support would be advantageous in a given circumstance.
Ah well.
Shameless spin aside, closing the Ontario Science Centre is a choice
The centre’s closing is a deeply cynical political manoeuvre based on a bogus reading of an engineer’s report
www.theglobeandmail.com
He rightly calls out the spin here, and the wilful misrepresentation of the engineering report.
Unfortunately, in my eyes, he also includes a paragraph that is exceedingly partisan and will alienate a portion of his readership who might otherwise be sympathetic.
I'm not a Doug Ford voter, populism is not my shtick, nor am I socially conservative in the least, but I see no utility in taking aim at people whose support would be advantageous in a given circumstance.
Ah well.
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Toronto, Canada & Global Breaking News – CP24
Most recent News News business news stories and video from CP24
www.cp24.com
a) Who appointed the board and b) the track record of this government overriding arms length agencies/boards/commissions/crown corps (e.g. LCBO) is *quite* interesting. Clearly Minister Surma treat the public as fools. If you are going to fake tears, try a little harder.
AoD
Northern Light
Superstar
Of course many of us are getting who we did not vote for too!
Indeed, more Ontarians voted for other parties (combined) than for Doug Ford's PCs.
It is a function of a terrible system (FPTP) that was once arguably necessary, but no longer is..... that we end up with governments with nearly unlimited power, based on a mandate from ~40% of those who voted, or about 17% of those eligible to vote.
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UtakataNoAnnex
Senior Member
The difficult decision would have been to fund the restructuring of OSC to keep the thing open. But to close it, that was easy to do....with no real cost to them. So indeed, their tears are super fake here.
generalcanada
Senior Member
from the article:Toronto, Canada & Global Breaking News – CP24
Most recent News News business news stories and video from CP24
a) Who appointed the board and b) the track record of this government overriding arms length agencies/boards/commissions/crown corps (e.g. LCBO) is *quite* interesting. Clearly Minister Surma treat the public as fools. If you are going to fake tears, try a little harder.
AoD
If that truly is the case that when the engineers spoke to the government in person, they advised against minimal repairs of the roof, then this is an open and shut case.
IF this is true, it really shows that complaining without the full picture is harmful, because the report does not say that at all. Lots of people would not be getting the same info the government did.
You can be skeptical of it, but if they are putting words in the engineer's mouth then that's a problem
It really would be typical of the government for them to fumble a pr crisis like this.
lenaitch
Senior Member
In addition, museums and art galleries on the level of the ROM and AGO have international prominence and deep pocketed benefactors so there is much more at stake if the province wanted to play populist silly bugger. Both have holdings that are valued into the millions and at least some of it they likely they do not own (loaned from another museum or collector). When it's the roof over somebody else's really expensive stuff that you are responsible for, it focusses the mind.
The Preservationist
Active Member
The Great Hall and surrounding structure is in my opinion one of the greatest examples of mid century modernist architecture this planet has to offer. I'm saddened that it will not be available for future generations.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
I fail to understand why Torontonians are so against moving the Science Centre to near Ontario Place. It is a far nicer and more convenient location and let's be serious, the OSC is in pretty bad shape and that cannot be blamed on Ford. It has basically been neglected for 30 years and they are right to close it down if it is structurally insecure, even if just a part of it.
They can certainly keep some of the building for historic reasons. I never found it attractive, but it is an iconic building of 1960s construction. Also wasn't the moving of the OSC part of the deal for QP to upload the Gardiner & DVP?
I think some of the howling has more to do with it being Ford who is moving it rather than the move itself.
They can certainly keep some of the building for historic reasons. I never found it attractive, but it is an iconic building of 1960s construction. Also wasn't the moving of the OSC part of the deal for QP to upload the Gardiner & DVP?
I think some of the howling has more to do with it being Ford who is moving it rather than the move itself.
hawc
Senior Member
Nope. Edge of a ravine is way nicer. As much as I love the Ontario Place pods, nothing compares with Moriyama's masterpiece. And convenient to who? Convenient maybe if you live down there. Not convenient for those who went to the Science Centre.
Can't disagree with this. Took the kids there twice a month for the last 5 years and it was incredibly run down. And just plain grungy inside.
Hopefully. It would be amazing if a university or college stepped up and said we're going to convert the main buildings into a campus (forget the warehouses at the bottom.) It could be like another Glendon Campus.
taal
Senior Member
I think the zoo comparison is a great one and it does make me wonder how things got so bad at the OSC - especially given how world renowned it was in the early days !
If you think back maybe 3 or 4 years ago - there were many articles about low zoo attendance and how it was struggling - I would also agree many of the facilities were (and are) aging. But something seemed to change in the pandemic or post pandemic ? The zoo seems considerably busier at all times, and I'm not entirely sure why - they made some improvements for sure, but I'm not sure what's what it is. I think it has a very strong membership base and for many it's a "day at a park and there happens to be some animals". I'm very happy for the zoo as the future seems bright. Clearly they are heavily investing as well with 60M+ on a new entrance / pavilion / ...
Maybe the answer is partly there, it's a lot simpler for the zoo to renovate a pavilion, add a new one, or the like, vs the OSC which likely needed a major face lift through and through.
If you think back maybe 3 or 4 years ago - there were many articles about low zoo attendance and how it was struggling - I would also agree many of the facilities were (and are) aging. But something seemed to change in the pandemic or post pandemic ? The zoo seems considerably busier at all times, and I'm not entirely sure why - they made some improvements for sure, but I'm not sure what's what it is. I think it has a very strong membership base and for many it's a "day at a park and there happens to be some animals". I'm very happy for the zoo as the future seems bright. Clearly they are heavily investing as well with 60M+ on a new entrance / pavilion / ...
Maybe the answer is partly there, it's a lot simpler for the zoo to renovate a pavilion, add a new one, or the like, vs the OSC which likely needed a major face lift through and through.
generalcanada
Senior Member
How the Ontario Science Centre was suddenly shut down — and why
Ontario’s auditor general had warned that “deferred maintenance projects that were at risk of critical failure have been repeatedly denied funding” at the Science Centre.
www.thestar.com
- IO will get the report peer-reviewed
- the fact that even 1 panel is at risk increases the risk of a full roof collapse
chrisw
Active Member
Ontario Science Centre doesn’t require full closure: A close reading of the engineers' report
A deep dive into the engineers' report suggests that the building’s key exhibition areas could continue to operate safely—even if the Ontario government chooses not to invest in any structural roof repairs by the fall.
www.canadianarchitect.com
Coolibop
Active Member
I think some new information:How the Ontario Science Centre was suddenly shut down — and why
Ontario’s auditor general had warned that “deferred maintenance projects that were at risk of critical failure have been repeatedly denied funding” at the Science Centre.
One reason for immediate closure is to give staff time to plan for whatever science centre we are going to have (temporarily). The messaging sounds as if this would be not possible to achieve in tandem of keeping it open.
Many other buildings (in Ontario) have the same material used... Are now being looked at (will they be closed as swiftly as OSC?) - given children frequent involved with OSC, I can understand the risk aversion.
The auditor general has listed numerous issues with the OSC that have been ignored since 2017 (no surprise here), a year before Ford took office.
It would take 2 to 5 years to replace the roof. Possibly beyond the planned move date.
I still find the communication about the whole thing poorly managed... And the messaging (as shown with other arms length agencies) seems to be very controlled. Why was the OSC not able to share why the bridge was closed as it was structurally not sound? We now know IO ordered the closure: it would cost 16 million to repair (I imagine the shuttle busses weren't as pricey for the 6 years planned until move). They knew they were moving it, so presumably didn't fund.
One final interesting tidbit I found interesting:
Just to stir the pot.... Do we think there was evidence of the problem? It sounds like this isn't something you know to lookout for... Unless you have a motive...?
generalcanada
Senior Member
There is 1 thing common among all of Ford's scandals....Communication and messaging.
Just obvious easy pr blunders that make no sense.