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Decision No. 101-R-2017

^ That award takes an interesting loop. If I am reading it right, it asserts the OBRY is not federally regulated, but Ontario and Ottawa agreed that Ontario would delegate back to Ottawa the administration of certain aspects of provincial regulation. In that particular case, that brought the railway and the applicant back before the CTA rather than hearing the matter at the provincial level, and so the CTA was the body that issued the ruling.

That leaves the question of who would address an OBRY abandonment application, and by what legislation, rather up in the air.

- Paul
 
^ That award takes an interesting loop. If I am reading it right, it asserts the OBRY is not federally regulated, but Ontario and Ottawa agreed that Ontario would delegate back to Ottawa the administration of certain aspects of provincial regulation. In that particular case, that brought the railway and the applicant back before the CTA rather than hearing the matter at the provincial level, and so the CTA was the body that issued the ruling.

That leaves the question of who would address an OBRY abandonment application, and by what legislation, rather up in the air.

- Paul
Exactly! The CTA wording that I emphasized last post *might be judged out of context* by the CTA itself and Superior Court, if that's where it ends up. What is pretty clear is that any ruling on the matter would have to come from a Federal court or legal agency like the CTA which is a de-facto court in legal standing.

To be clear, *in this instance* the ruling concerns level crossings, and the CTA ruling is absolute in that matter, save for an appeal to Superior Court as detailed in the Transportation Act, or ostensibly the Transport Minister through the Lieutenant in Council (effectively the same thing) who won't touch this with a ten foot Ford, while he covers his mouth to block the laughing.

The question isn't if the Feds have the power to block the Province's moves on their short sighted shortline legislation, the question is 'by how much'? I read this:
The Agency is of the opinion that this provides the Agency with express statutory jurisdiction over both the railway line (railway infrastructure) and the land that necessarily supports that railway infrastructure.
to mean all of it. But even if not, at the minimum, as long as those crossings exist, Queen's Park is stymied. It's akin to the Province stopping the Allen Expressway back in the Bill Davis day by claiming title to a one foot strip across the RoW. (My God how things have changed! Now it's the City that would claim the one foot strip!

Pretty juicy, ain't it? If it is Fed as it appears, it will take *at least* three years to dispose of it, and the order of doing so (who gets first, second, third, etc choice) is all laid out in the Transportation Act. And oddly, private buyers are *way down* the list.

I think @ShonTron got this exactly right. It will be trail, and with the OBRY (effectively Orangeville Council) calling the shots as to how, when and why. I can't see it being anything other than trail, connect that to the Elora-Cataract and up into Orangeville (and beyond) and it will bring tourists into town. That would be one of Ontario's 'cadillac' trails! Ontario's Erie Canal trail. The south end could be snapped up by Brampton for a transit corridor, but even starting as a 'rail trail' from Brampton Station, this would be a recreation trail supreme for the GTHA to connect up to many others.
it asserts the OBRY is not federally regulated
I read it as *is* federally regulated by the CTA's wording, in entirety, but is provincially chartered. That is the point of contention, but as stated, even the crossings alone being Federally regulated throws the kibosh into Ford's Kerfuffle Act. I've sent off details to get an opinion on it.

Mandate of the Agency
(1) The Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) is an independent, quasi-judicial, expert tribunal and regulator which has, with respect to all matters necessary for the exercise of its jurisdiction, all the powers of a superior court.
https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/code-conduct-members-agency

Any appeal is to the Federal Court of Appeal.
 
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Orangeville councillor Todd Taylor has introduced a motion to investigate the divestment of the Orangeville Railway Development Corporation (ORDC). If successful, this could potentially result in the sale of the line, or, as the new mayor hopes, its conversion into a recreational trail and land for future real-estate projects.

 
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Orangeville councillor Todd Taylor has introduced a motion to investigate the divestment of the Orangeville Railway Development Corporation (ORDC). If successful, this could potentially result in the sale of the line, or, as the new mayor hopes, its conversion into a recreational trail and land for future real-estate projects.


I'm a biker. I love to bike in trails. However transit expansion in this province is more important. It should take priority. I wish there was a provincial motion that all potential rail trails have to go through an assessment to see if there is a future potential for transit using said rail corridors before they are ripped up.

Or a provision that the rail trail has to be removed at any time for future transit use.

Also; most rail trails could exist beside the tracks. Theres ample room in rail corridors usually. No reason the tracks have to be ripped up.

Its my understanding though that this rail line would need to be re-tracked for any GO transit type use, its too slow right now for any useful transit purpose. Still, im sure converting to a rail trail doesnt preserve any useful track bed etc.
 
I'm a biker. I love to bike in trails. However transit expansion in this province is more important. It should take priority. I wish there was a provincial motion that all potential rail trails have to go through an assessment to see if there is a future potential for transit using said rail corridors before they are ripped up.

Or a provision that the rail trail has to be removed at any time for future transit use.

Also; most rail trails could exist beside the tracks. Theres ample room in rail corridors usually. No reason the tracks have to be ripped up.

Its my understanding though that this rail line would need to be re-tracked for any GO transit type use, its too slow right now for any useful transit purpose. Still, im sure converting to a rail trail doesnt preserve any useful track bed etc.
It is normal that all lightly used rail line will need new track to be effective for transit use. This should be expected. However, once the tracks are lifted, it usually almost impossible to bring back rail service.
 
It is normal that all lightly used rail line will need new track to be effective for transit use. This should be expected. However, once the tracks are lifted, it usually almost impossible to bring back rail service.

Yes absolutely, thats what im trying to get at.

put a rail trail beside the tracks. Retain them for possible future use, even if they need replacement. They are basically a bookmark.
 
^ I wonder how that would work in terms of liability. It would be sad to see the line lifted but if it isn't profitable what are they to do. I think Orangeville has money issues right now (but then again who doesn't). Of course, people will complain about more trucks to the few industries currently using it, or when they relocate.
 
I'm a biker. I love to bike in trails. However transit expansion in this province is more important. It should take priority. I wish there was a provincial motion that all potential rail trails have to go through an assessment to see if there is a future potential for transit using said rail corridors before they are ripped up.

Or a provision that the rail trail has to be removed at any time for future transit use.

Also; most rail trails could exist beside the tracks. Theres ample room in rail corridors usually. No reason the tracks have to be ripped up.

Its my understanding though that this rail line would need to be re-tracked for any GO transit type use, its too slow right now for any useful transit purpose. Still, im sure converting to a rail trail doesnt preserve any useful track bed etc.

I agree, it is possible to build a multi-use trail alongside a rail line. The only major obstacle to this arrangement along the OBRY are the bridges (which are only wide enough for a track).

The tracks would pretty much have to be replaced from end to end to facilitate regular passenger service, but that could still be done if the line was converted to a trail. What concerns me is the mayor's proposal to open up the ROW in Brampton and Orangeville to real-estate developers.

I'm probably late to the game here, but does Metrolinx not have an opinion on this? Could it not be part of a future Orangeville spur off of the Kitchener line?

Metrolinx has previously stated that they have no plans to run rail service to Orangeville. As of right now, the costs probably don't make sense (when compared to the population along the line). However, as others have already mentioned, there may be a need for commuter rail in the future. Every time I drive up Highway 10, I notice more and more subdivisions being erected (they're now building them as far as Dundalk). So, there may come a point in 15-20 years when enough potential riders would be along this corridor to justify the construction costs.

If the line were to be abandoned, Metrolinx could also buy it for future use (just like they did with the CP Don Branch in Toronto).
 
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Metrolinx has previously stated that they have no plans to run rail service to Orangeville. As of right now, the costs probably don't make sense (when compared to the population along the line). However, as others have already mentioned, there may be a need for commuter rail in the future. Every time I drive up Highway 10, I notice more and more subdivisions being erected (they're now building them as far as Dundalk). So, there may come a point in 15-20 years when enough potential riders would be along this corridor to justify the construction costs.

Except that, as has been pointed out many times by many people here, the railway alignment is not conducive for any sort of rail operation between Orangeville and Brampton that will be superior to a bus service on the parallel highway.

Dan
 
Except that, as has been pointed out many times by many people here, the railway alignment is not conducive for any sort of rail operation between Orangeville and Brampton that will be superior to a bus service on the parallel highway.
There are three parts to the OBRY as I see it - Streetsville-Brampton GO diamond, Brampton diamond-the edge of Brampton, edge of Brampton-Orangeville.

For Streetsville, does a disconnected spur have any value to either CP for customers or GO for storage? If GO wanted a mini-yard they could probably find a way to get it into the back of the bus garage. While there are a few industries between Streetsville yard and the 401, it is residential/institutional north of that, and even south of 401 residential has been allowed to encroach from the east. There are a bunch of grade crossings Mississauga probably wouldn't be sad to see the back of, and abandoning the portals under 401 and 407 might open that area up a bit either as road or trail.

At Brampton, getting rid of the diamond would probably save a bunch of $ especially if another east-west track was going in. A curve onto the OBRY in the northeast corner looks theoretically possible and might give CN some local delivery business and/or a storage option for GO. On the other hand, severing completely, depressing the OBRY alignment and putting a light rail track in could work, but from where to where, and does that impact Hurontario LRT in any way?

Where the edge of Brampton is depends on your point of view. If there is any plausible and medium term intent to develop Brampton airfield for passenger or multimodal freight, preserving the track to that point seems potentially useful., If not, then the yard at Mayfield Road. Beyond that, it doesn't seem to have any reasonable future.

In the event of some sort of energy crisis which resuscitated rail, getting a track across to the CP at Bolton would probably be as cheap or easy or useful for Orangeville as resurrecting the OBRY.
 
In the event of some sort of energy crisis which resuscitated rail, getting a track across to the CP at Bolton would probably be as cheap or easy or useful for Orangeville as resurrecting the OBRY.

I shudder at the number of railfan romantics who will pick up the cry.... "Relay the Toronto & Grey Bruce !!!" Horseshoe curve and all.....

I can't imagine that CP would give up rights to any traffic that originates north of the diamond. Railways just don't do that. So the diamond likely has to stay, but it's benign to the issue. The line to the north end of Brampton isn't going anywhere, as there is healthy freight as far as Snelgrove.

- Paul
 
I can't imagine that CP would give up rights to any traffic that originates north of the diamond. Railways just don't do that. So the diamond likely has to stay, but it's benign to the issue. The line to the north end of Brampton isn't going anywhere, as there is healthy freight as far as Snelgrove.
what are Orangeville’s options then? Can they force CPR to lease the track and operate locals in themselves?
 
^I don’t know exactly what milepoint Orangeville owns from. Typically when railways sell a spur, they retain the first mile or two so they retain control on traffic So CP may own a bit around Streetsville, and would likely be happy if Trillium continues to do the switching.
I expect Orangeville would apply to abandon from some point north of Brampton - let’s say from Mayfield Road-ish northwards. Then they can lease the south piece to Trillium, or anybody else. Or sell it to Peel Region or City of Brampton.

- Paul
 
I shudder at the number of railfan romantics who will pick up the cry.... "Relay the Toronto & Grey Bruce !!!" Horseshoe curve and all.....

I can't imagine that CP would give up rights to any traffic that originates north of the diamond. Railways just don't do that. So the diamond likely has to stay, but it's benign to the issue. The line to the north end of Brampton isn't going anywhere, as there is healthy freight as far as Snelgrove.

- Paul

But who would be interested in owning the portion north of those industries at the 401 to Snelgrove? The two companies that are served in Brampton would be enough to keep the line?
 

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