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This discussion is 12 years old. Although it's true that high floor or a light metro solution should have been adopted, I'm not convinced the vehicles are being asked to do something they aren't designed to do. I've ridden several other systems with low floor cars that have comparable curves, speeds and spacing without the wheels falling off. The Alstom vehicle was based on a tram-train platform and rated for 100 or 105 mph and 25 meter curves. It's being driven at 80 and the whole Ottawa tight curve lark is an urban myth. It's all fixable, but the way the system was constructed (administratively and physically) doesn't work, and the companies are more interested in pointing fingers than fixing it.
 
This discussion is 12 years old. Although it's true that high floor or a light metro solution should have been adopted, I'm not convinced the vehicles are being asked to do something they aren't designed to do. I've ridden several other systems with low floor cars that have comparable curves, speeds and spacing without the wheels falling off. The Alstom vehicle was based on a tram-train platform and rated for 100 or 105 mph and 25 meter curves. It's being driven at 80 and the whole Ottawa tight curve lark is an urban myth. It's all fixable, but the way the system was constructed (administratively and physically) doesn't work, and the companies are more interested in pointing fingers than fixing it.
Where have you ridden similar systems? A lot of people are claiming it doesn't make sense to operate low-floor LRVs on a completely grade separated setup. Ottawa is one of the very few cities that has this setup.
 
This discussion is 12 years old. Although it's true that high floor or a light metro solution should have been adopted, I'm not convinced the vehicles are being asked to do something they aren't designed to do. I've ridden several other systems with low floor cars that have comparable curves, speeds and spacing without the wheels falling off. The Alstom vehicle was based on a tram-train platform and rated for 100 or 105 mph and 25 meter curves. It's being driven at 80 and the whole Ottawa tight curve lark is an urban myth. It's all fixable, but the way the system was constructed (administratively and physically) doesn't work, and the companies are more interested in pointing fingers than fixing it.
the issue is truly the design of the trains yeah, the Citadis Dualis, of which the spirits are based upon, have had similar axle and bearing issues. not to mention the Dualis operate far more like commuter or regional rail rather than a metro like in Ottawa and then there's whole issue of the lack of doors and standing room inside with low floor LRV's.
 
would go even further and say that we could've skipped over LRT and built a full metro akin to the skytrain or REM. but what's built is built unfortunately.
They did build a full metro. It's fully grade-separated and it even has Automatic Train Operation. It's just a metro that they are operating using trams that are poorly suited for metro operations.
 
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Where have you ridden similar systems?
In Seattle, it sometimes feels like they have the same systemic issue there. Everything they've built recently is 100% grade-separated, and they could have used high-floor trains. But there's legacy track between downtown and the airport, which has road crossings and platforms where low-floor makes more sense. On the other hand, the trains actually work - but annoyingly have steps in them everywhere to get over the wheels.

There's a lot more planned for Seattle - I'm not sure if they are going to start building non-grade-separated track or not.

Here's a photo I took a couple of weeks ago of the the trial running on the new Line 1 extension from Northgate to Lynnwood (which opened today!). No low-floor trains needed on this piece.
1725047100954.png
 
Everything they've built recently is 100% grade-separated, and they could have used high-floor trains.
The new 2 Line to Redmond has a small at grade section in the median in East Bellevue:
1725064342802.png
 
The new 2 Line to Redmond has a small at grade section in the median in East Bellevue:
Ah, interesting - I haven't been out that way. I don't know what they are doing south of Angel Lake as well, to be honest. Or in Tacoma - if that counts.
 
Something is happening in Ottawa. Emphasis mine.

The Ottawa Citizen: Frustrated commuters air grievances to Ottawa transit commission
Councillors on Ottawa’s transit commission got an earful Thursday from riders alarmed by potential cuts to service and soaring fares needed to dig OC Transpo out of its deep financial hole.

More than 30 delegations presented their complaints to the commission during the marathon six-hour meeting. The decision to reduce off-peak train service on the Confederation Line to once every 10 minutes from five minutes drew particular ire, as did a planned rejigging of bus routes once the Trillium Line LRT begins service.

Delphine Robitaille of the University of Ottawa Students’ Union said OC Transpo’s unreliability and the reduced off-peak service threatened student support for OC Transpo’s lucrative UPass for students.

She called it an “existential threat” to the UPass program, which is worth $19 million to OC Transpo annually.

Once the delegations were done, it was the councillors’ turn. Barrhaven West Coun. David Hill worried that commuters caught in this week’s crush of public servants heading back to the office three days a week would be discouraged if they couldn’t get on “packed to the gills” express buses heading downtown from Fallowfield.

The service reduction on the Confederation Line threatens “the spine” of the entire transit system, Kichissippi Ward Coun. Jeff Leiper warned. The change announced in July would save OC Transpo $600,000 this year and $1.8 million over a full year, but that wasn’t worth the harm it would cause, Leiper argued.

OC Transpo is facing a $25-million operating deficit this year, primarily due to the loss of ridership since the start of the COVID-19 pandemic. This week, Mayor Mark Sutcliffe warned of an even bigger $120-million structural deficit for transit in next year’s budget. It would take a 75-per-cent increase in fares to make that up, or a hike in the transit levy of 37 per cent, the equivalent of a seven-per-cent increase on property-tax bills.

The Ottawa Citizen: 'It's not fair at all': City facing tough choices to shore up transit budget
Mayor Mark Sutcliffe is warning that transit fare hikes of as much as 75 per cent, or a transit levy that could add seven per cent to property taxes just to cover the cost of OC Transpo alone, might be needed as the City of Ottawa begins a “challenging” 2025 budget debate.

In a briefing to reporters Wednesday morning, Sutcliffe said he was aiming to limit the tax increase for all city services — except transit — to 2.9 per cent. That’s less than half a percentage point higher than the 2.5 per cent increases the mayor promised and delivered in his first two years in office. But it doesn’t include the cost of OC Transpo, which is facing a devastating $120-million shortfall.

The 2.9 per cent increase for the non-transit portion of the budget is in keeping with Sutcliffe’s election promise, he said. But critics, including some councillors, say Ottawa’s increases have been far below those of other Canadian cities. Property taxes in Toronto jumped 9.5 per cent in 2024, while they climbed 7.5 per cent in London and 6.1 per cent in Waterloo.

Meanwhile, Sutcliffe says he’s continuing to talk with the federal and provincial government for more funding, including the $90 million the city says it’s owed for federal payments in lieu of property taxes. Kanata-Carleton MP Jenna Sudds, the minister of Families, Children and Social Development and the senior MP for the Ottawa region, has been cool to the mayor’s arguments for budget help, saying the city must “get its own house in order.”

WTF, a 75% fare increase? And a drop to 10 minute headways on the Confederation Line for a savings of $1.8 million a year sounds like it will reduce net revenue, not increase it. Sounds like there's some more jurisdictional infighting again.

Reading the second article, I'm so glad Tory had that affair. I feel almost optimistic about the TTC.
 
What's happening is that amalgamation made it so that the suburbs control the city and love to vote for politicians that hate raising taxes and hate transit.

I was already grumpy enough about having to pay more for OCTranspo than I do for TTC but increasing fares whilst simultaneously reducing headways is the icing on the cake. Ottawa truly deserves everything it gets.
 
The increasing complication of rail vehicles and systems is, I think, in danger of killing off rail implementations except where there is no other way to meet volumes. Ottawa's LRT had to shut down for a while because of cameras. Cameras? The heavy rail line 2/4 can't reopen, first because the switches weren't working, and now because even if everything works, the computers aren't reporting something correctly. There are so many points of failure that the rail systems as a whole seem to be a whole lot less reliable than those of 80 years ago. This can't continue.
 
There are a couple of projects in the UK to create simpler very light rail vehicles targeted at:
  1. Low-traffic branch lines, https://revolutionvlr.com/
  2. Streetcar style urban rail transit on lighter tracks - reducing the amount of existing infrastructure that needs to be moved before track installation, https://www.coventry.gov.uk/coventry-light-rail/light-rail
The Coventry project was very active in 2023 but seems to have gone quiet this year.
 
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