MisterF
Senior Member
double post
Only in Canada would it be in doubt that a meto area of 120,000 isn't big enough to be served by rail. And a relatively short line to a major city at that. Even Scotland has a more extensive rail network than Southern Ontario.I'm all for a proper rail network throughout Canada, especially seeing as flying becomes less of an option with each passing year. I just don't know that Peterborough has the numbers to justify the costs and hey, I lived there for a number of years and on a personal level would love to see train service there. There's already the 407 coming which would serve the Peterborough region well, gas prices notwithstanding.
That joke is one of those urban legends that never seems to die. Like Yonge St being the longest street in the world. Repeat it enough times and people will think it's true. Peterborough is growing, GE and Quaker are both stable, there's still a strong manufacturing sector, and Trent and Fleming aren't going anywhere. For a midsize Ontario city Peterborough's median age of 41.7 isn't far off average. In Kingston it's 40.0, St. Catharines is 41.7, North Bay is 40.8, and Sarnia is 43.2. All those cities have rail service. It's mainly the bigger cities that are significantly younger.The problem with Peterborough is that it is more of a retirement community than a commuter's community. A lot of larger businesses have shrunk or moved on since the 80s (GE is a shadow of its former self, Quaker Oats, Outboard Marine, etc.) and the retirement complexes moved in. The joke in town used to be that Peterborough had the highest average age in the nation (it was popular with Stats-Can) and I don't think that was far off. And that was before the jobs began disappearing.
Other than a hard core contingent of commuters I just don't see it offering enough other than convenience for people who want to do a day trip to the GTA.
120,000 - ah your looking at the CMA. And indeed it seems to be the 33rd largest CMA in Canada. Let's see what else is on that list ... number 35 is Cape Breton. The city of Cape Breton - no the entire island.Only in Canada would it be in doubt that a meto area of 120,000 isn't big enough to be served by rail.
120,000 - ah your looking at the CMA. And indeed it seems to be the 33rd largest CMA in Canada. Let's see what else is on that list ... number 35 is Cape Breton. The city of Cape Breton - no the entire island.
Only in Canada would it be in doubt that a meto area of 120,000 isn't big enough to be served by rail. And a relatively short line to a major city at that.
That joke is one of those urban legends that never seems to die. Like Yonge St being the longest street in the world. Repeat it enough times and people will think it's true. Peterborough is growing, GE and Quaker are both stable, there's still a strong manufacturing sector, and Trent and Fleming aren't going anywhere. For a midsize Ontario city Peterborough's median age of 41.7 isn't far off average. In Kingston it's 40.0, St. Catharines is 41.7, North Bay is 40.8, and Sarnia is 43.2. All those cities have rail service. It's mainly the bigger cities that are significantly younger.
Better yet, compare it to Cobourg, a small town with an ancient median age of 46.1. And it has one of the busiest VIA stations east of Toronto.
Well, Peterborough (or the Kawarthas) might be growing but student enrollment is shrinking, something that led to my change of address a couple years back. Kawartha Lakes (Lindsay) almost has the same numbers as Peterborough as well as similar growth patterns and it hardly gets a thought let alone talk of a rail line.
The old service and the proposed service aren't comparable. The tracks are proposed to be totally rebuilt for higher speed service similar to VIA mainline service. It'll be comparable with driving if not faster, while the old service was much slower and rougher.You can use another criteria - how many people used the train before it got cancelled. Virtually no one.
Enrollment at Trent is lower this year but it's higher than it was when the previous service was cut. Trent and Fleming have well over 12,000 full time students and another 10,000+ part time. Greyhound runs a lot of buses to Peterborough partly because of the students.Well, Peterborough (or the Kawarthas) might be growing but student enrollment is shrinking, something that led to my change of address a couple years back.
You missed the point. That doesn't explain why Cobourg has one of the busiest VIA stations east of Toronto, busier than your example of Belleville. 6 trains stop here every weekday. Peterborough is a similar distance with a much larger population. It can easily support 2 daily trains.Cobourg's selling point is it's location along the rail route that it shares with much larger parts of the GTA and Eastern Ontario (Kingston, Bellville etc.). It isn't necessary to be a draw because the larger line is already there. You just had to add a station.
Not comparable. The "City" of Kawartha Lakes covers over twice the area of the entire Peterborough CMA. Lindsay itself has a population around 17,000 compared to Peterborough's 75,000.
Enrollment at Trent is lower this year but it's higher than it was when the previous service was cut. Trent and Fleming have well over 12,000 full time students and another 10,000+ part time. Greyhound runs a lot of buses to Peterborough partly because of the students.
You missed the point. That doesn't explain why Cobourg has one of the busiest VIA stations east of Toronto, busier than your example of Belleville. 6 trains stop here every weekday. Peterborough is a similar distance with a much larger population. It can easily support 2 daily trains.
This is a trend across the whole Western world. Enrollment is decreasing all over. People are having fewer children and the population is aging. This has nothing to do with the viability of passenger rail - countries with lower birth rates have much more extensive rail systems.When I mentioned enrollment I was actually referring to the school board, where enrollment went down by about 500 two years ago and I imagine the trend isn't changing--significant numbers in a place like the Kawarthas and not helpful in getting that average age down.
And I wasn't arguing the opposite. The only reason I brought up Cobourg was to counter your assertion that passenger rail isn't viable for cities with aging populations.As far as the other point goes, I wasn't arguing that Peterborough was less suited to support a couple trains a day compared with Cobourg based on age or any other criteria.
Almost every developed country in the world would consider it very easy to justify. Canada is one of the few countries where a city comparable to Peterborough (size, distance to a major urban centre) doesn't have multiple trains per day without a second thought. Again, look at Scotland as an example. Cities comparable to Peterborough like Inverness and Aberdeen have rail service, and they're not on main lines going to bigger cities. Not only that, but passenger rail serves a lot of small, out of the way towns in the north and west. If our rail system were comparable to Scotland's, not only would Peterborough have service, but so would Pembroke, Lindsay, Orillia, and Owen Sound. And the UK isn't exactly known for the quality of its rail system.I'm simply saying a $150 million investment for a couple of trains a day just to Peterborough is very difficult to justify in any situation, especially now.