[lenaitch]

Wait, you mean unless it is an environmentally sound project it won't happen?

And then there is this....

Seven people, including three children, dead after Kingston plane crash

Seven people, including three children, are dead after a plane that took off from Markham, Ont. crashed in a wooded area in Kingston.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

I'm missing the point.

 

[micheal_can]

I'm missing the point.

Crashes are not usually something that makes the public want more airports.

 

[lenaitch]

Crashes are not usually something that makes the public want more airports.

Fatal accidents are obviously never good news but seeing as this was a private general aviation aircraft being operated between two municipal airports I doubt it will have any impact on the argument one way or the other, any more that the next GO or VIA incident will derail (!) arguments for intercity rail.

 

[MarkBrooks]

Fatal accidents are obviously never good news but seeing as this was a private general aviation aircraft being operated between two municipal airports I doubt it will have any impact on the argument one way or the other, any more that the next GO or VIA incident will derail (!) arguments for intercity rail.

Please stop and think of the issues that caused the accident, the challenges faced everyday by normal people trying to exercise their Mobility rights and keep themselves and their passengers safe.

I was told that this US pilot landed at Buttonville for fuel and service. That he parked on the ramp just hours before he died.

I was at the 5th annual transit summit hosted by the Toronto Board of trade, (you know listening and talking to folks who have real ideas on how to improve our transit, rail etc), So I didn’t get a chance to talk with him about the weather and icing conditions. If I had, and if he had asked for assistance in understanding local weather condition, I would have told him to stay on the ground.

for anyone reading this post in the future, NAV Canada in only a phone call away :
1-866-992-7433
london weather service

 

[Tim MacDonald]

It's an unfortunate scenario but I don't think the lack of a terminal area forecast out of YKZ made any difference. At the very least he would get wx from YTR or YGK. What would make a difference was if he wasn't IFR rated, was flying a full pax load, and was at max range. It would be interesting to know how much fuel, if any, was left on board at the time of impact. Perhaps a case of get-there-itis.

 

[lenaitch]

I suppose that's why we have a Transportation safety Board; to, you know, actually investigate these things. Weather? Skill? Weight/balance? It is often a combination of factors.

 

[MarkBrooks]

I suppose that's why we have a Transportation safety Board; to, you know, actually investigate these things. Weather? Skill? Weight/balance? It is often a combination of factors.

All of the above, but consider this, if instead of saving money by closing Buttonvilles tower and weather this pilot still had both ?

one phrase should have been all a low time pilot ( he had a mere 200 hours) needed to hear:

”VFR Flight not Recommended “

Unfortunately enhancing supporting services like tower and weather are not part of the TSBs normal scope.

 

[MarkBrooks]

Now for something more positive, could the global warming effects of aviation be cut in half by a simple FL250 EcoHack?

Could contrail persistence areas be modeled and avoided like other weather (such as a thunderstorm) and flown around Or under?

the science is not there to quantify if or by how much contrails contribute to long term global warming ( hurry up already) but if they do the ability of pilots and Atc to all but avoid the problem is here today and could be refined.

The contrail boogeyman is used to upsell consumer carbon offsets and the strange math of anti aviation/globalization activist. here is one approach to killing this Bogeyman and ( assuming the worse doomsayer is right) cutting aviations global warming effect in half. .

Can an EcoHack Cut Global Warming from Aviation in Half? - Friends of Pickering Airport

By Mark Brooks, November 30, 2019 The aviation industry is the backbone of the global economy, but for years it has…

pickeringairport.org

 

[micheal_can]

Now for something more positive, could the global warming effects of aviation be cut in half by a simple FL250 EcoHack?

Could contrail persistence areas be modeled and avoided like other weather (such as a thunderstorm) and flown around Or under?

the science is not there to quantify if or by how much contrails contribute to long term global warming ( hurry up already) but if they do the ability of pilots and Atc to all but avoid the problem is here today and could be refined.

The contrail boogeyman is used to upsell consumer carbon offsets and the strange math of anti aviation/globalization activist. here is one approach to killing this Bogeyman and ( assuming the worse doomsayer is right) cutting aviations global warming effect in half. .

Can an EcoHack Cut Global Warming from Aviation in Half? - Friends of Pickering Airport

By Mark Brooks, November 30, 2019 The aviation industry is the backbone of the global economy, but for years it has…

pickeringairport.org

Lets ignore contrails as they are mainly water vapour. Lets talk about cO2 emissions. How much CO2 does an airplane emit? Pick the most popular one, and tell us per km or mile how much cO@ is released per person per km/mile.

Then answer the same for a passenger train in Canada. Then, the most popular passenger vehicle sold last year.

Then we can have a real conversation about emissions.

 

[MarkBrooks]

Lets ignore contrails as they are mainly water vapour. Lets talk about cO2 emissions. How much CO2 does an airplane emit? Pick the most popular one, and tell us per km or mile how much cO@ is released per person per km/mile.

Then answer the same for a passenger train in Canada. Then, the most popular passenger vehicle sold last year.

Then we can have a real conversation about emissions.

Rail is always best but that only covers a a fraction of travelers . ( sorry no trillion $$ European train network in Canada)

flying beats driving hands down, no contest:

covered this well here:

Time to Get Real About Aviation and Global Warming - Friends of Pickering Airport

Print 🖨 PDF 📄 eBook 📱 For the first time since humans have existed on Earth, carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has topped 415 parts per million. Transportation contributes significantly to global warming. We can take concrete actions today to reduce those emissions through more efficient...

pickeringairport.org

 

[micheal_can]

Rail is always best but that only covers a a fraction of travelers . ( sorry no trillion $$ European train network in Canada)

flying beats driving hands down, no contest:

covered this well here:

Time to Get Real About Aviation and Global Warming - Friends of Pickering Airport

Print 🖨 PDF 📄 eBook 📱 For the first time since humans have existed on Earth, carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has topped 415 parts per million. Transportation contributes significantly to global warming. We can take concrete actions today to reduce those emissions through more efficient...

pickeringairport.org

That is only the case because we have let our rail service squander and propped up air travel.

I will listen to your arguments about air travel being the best when before this gets built, the 4th largest city in Canada gets rail service.

The only time air travel cannot be matched is when you need to cross an ocean. Other than that, all moeny we could be spending on airports and such should be put towards rail.

 

[MarkBrooks]

That is only the case because we have let our rail service squander and propped up air travel.

I will listen to your arguments about air travel being the best when before this gets built, the 4th largest city in Canada gets rail service.

The only time air travel cannot be matched is when you need to cross an ocean. Other than that, all moeny we could be spending on airports and such should be put towards rail.

Air travels advantage is in the numbers, and the low cost of infrastructure per passenger Km traveled In Canada. But we do need rail where ever possible, VIAs HFR makes sense and should have a stop at Pickering airport. rail and transit need to be part of our TOD ( transit orientated Development) plan at Pickering.

 

[micheal_can]

Air travels advantage is in the numbers, and the low cost of infrastructure per passenger Km traveled In Canada. But we do need rail where ever possible, VIAs HFR makes sense and should have a stop at Pickering airport. rail and transit need to be part of our TOD ( transit orientated Development) plan at Pickering.

Just imagine if the 4th largest city in Canada didn't have an airport?

Air travel is the best solution for overseas travel.

Traveling between major cities that are close, rail is better as the time between arriving at the station/airport to exiting the other station/airport begin to line up closer. Think of Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal. The time in the air may be quicker, but take in going through security and how much before the flight you need to arrive by and air travel no longer is as fast. Calgary - Edmonton and Regina - Saskatoon are other places where air travel could actually be reduced with regular speed passenger rail service.

So, build more passenger rail service, then talk to me about an airport that will only add to our carbon footprint.

 

[SunriseChampion]

You guys are still at this, fascinating.

Sorry, don't mind me, carry on.

I agree with @micheal_can ...our train system in this country is a sad joke and should be improved before even dreaming of building unnecessary airports on prime agricultural land. But what do I know, I only eat the food.

 

[micheal_can]

You guys are still at this, fascinating.

Sorry, don't mind me, carry on.

I agree with @micheal_can ...our train system in this country is a sad joke and should be improved before even dreaming of building unnecessary airports on prime agricultural land. But what do I know, I only eat the food.

You likely fly too... And you might even be someone who rides a train, or would if you could.