[afransen]

The earth is resilient and it will always thrive.

This true. Whatever happens, the earth will still be there. Human civilization is much less resilient, though. If we mess things up badly enough, a few billion people could die of starvation. On the bright side, us in the rich world probably won't starve, but our standard of living will drop like a rock.

 

[grey]

I'll extend this by saying don't waste a vote on the useless Green Party. Don't vote for splitting the left and supporting the NDP, who is responsible for the Harper Government to begin with. And why would anyone waste a vote for a separatist party like the Bloc?

Vote Liberal if you want to defeat Harper.

Don't get me wrong -- vote how you want, but this is bad advice (and actually CAUSES vote-splitting) if your intention is to keep the Conservatives out of government and you live in a hotly contested riding. Here's how to vote strategically: http://www.projectdemocracy.ca/

You might recognize this from the last election -- of course it's put together by some left wing org, but it has good information on key ridings and which candidate is most likely to beat the conservative candidate (or, if you want, you could use this website to help the conservative, if that's the kind of country you want to live in ).

 

[JasonParis]

Why should they have the same democratic rights as the rest of Canadians when they don't even want to be part of this country? We've just allowed ourselves to be manipulated by that train of thought. There is no benefit to the rest of Canadians having this party in existence. We need to stop this special treatment for Quebecers. They have such a chip on their shoudlers from losing the war. This is a perfect example of affirmative action. Poor Quebecers are outsiders in this country so let's permit them to tear us apart.

Democracy isn't limited to those who have a pro-federalist bent. It's for the same reasons that Welsh & Scottish Nationalists and Irish Republicans sit in Westminster. You may not like it (nor do I), but it's our system and it's wonderful. Allowing the BQ into the House of Commons is not special treatment in any sense as there is nothing stopping other regional parties from doing the same. Moreover, your assessment of modern day QC is frankly rubbish and troll-like, much like your understanding of affirmative action (which doesn't have anything to do with this debate anyway).

 

[GenerationW]

Quebec has got way too much attention from Anglo Canada. Why the hell do we have to print every label, sign in this country in English and French, yet it's only necessary for the latter in Quebec? As far as I'm concerned, I'd love to see them separate then inevitably beg that we take them back. Their military would be an absolute joke. Why should we support them when so many of them resent this country and anything that isn't French? It would be no skin off our backs to lose them. They're such pretentious snobs that always want their way so I say we give them the country they so desperately desire.

I'd rather have you leave Canada.

 

[urbandreamer]

The only thing that will defeat any leader is time.

And btw, it's all just a cycle...left to right, up to down.

Relax. Worry about your own life, not someone you will never be able to control.

 

[MisterF]

Why should they have the same democratic rights as the rest of Canadians when they don't even want to be part of this country? We've just allowed ourselves to be manipulated by that train of thought. There is no benefit to the rest of Canadians having this party in existence. We need to stop this special treatment for Quebecers. They have such a chip on their shoudlers from losing the war. This is a perfect example of affirmative action. Poor Quebecers are outsiders in this country so let's permit them to tear us apart.

Put it this way - in other countries where separatist movements are repressed and pushed underground, it turns violent. In Quebec everything is out in the open and legitimate - and that's why there hasn't been separatist violence in 40 years. The more you try to suppress a separatist movement, the worse you make it. Britain has learned the same lesson with Northern Ireland.

The Quebec separatist movement came along with the Quiet Revolution, which was among other things a reaction to francophones being kept out of any positions of power in Quebec. Those days are long gone, and it's no coincidence that separation talk has died down too. Oh BTW, as much as you love the thought, Quebec didn't lose any war. They chose to join Confederation in 1867 just like the other provinces. They're not a conquered people.

Quebec has got way too much attention from Anglo Canada. Why the hell do we have to print every label, sign in this country in English and French, yet it's only necessary for the latter in Quebec? As far as I'm concerned, I'd love to see them separate then inevitably beg that we take them back. Their military would be an absolute joke. Why should we support them when so many of them resent this country and anything that isn't French? It would be no skin off our backs to lose them. They're such pretentious snobs that always want their way so I say we give them the country they so desperately desire.

Wow, I think I just lost a few brain cells. There's a forumer on SSP who'd call this a drunken uncle rant. I think that pretty much sums it up!

 

[TonyV]

A Conservative vote in my riding is a wasted vote. Toronto-Centre voters are like lemmings to the Rae camp.

Not necessarily

(To Arob, don't worry I won't vote Conservative).

 

[grey]

Aside from the separtism, the Bloc actually has a really impressive platform.

 

[kEiThZ]

Stephen Harper MUST be defeated , or we are ALL defeated.


http://shitharperdid.ca.nyud.net/

vote Liberal
vote Green
vote NDP
vote Bloc

Anything But Conservative please

PCC, when you get back to work on Monday morning tell your bosses at Hill Knowlton that your under-cover assignment here on UrbanToronto.ca has been exposed.

http://www.hillandknowlton.ca/social-media-team

and give them my love.

Crap like this almost makes me want to vote Conservative. And how do I know that you're not a paid shill for some anti-Conservative group?

Not that PCC is much better. But you seem to have started this fight, for no apparent reason other than that PCC expressed an opinion counter to your own.

I hope both of you get banned.

 

[kEiThZ]

Aside from the separtism, the Bloc actually has a really impressive platform.

Agreed. Slam on the Bloc all you like. But the brutal truth is that they deliver for their voters. Nobody else brings home the bacon like they do. Decades of the 416 going red. How has the Liberal party paid back Toronto?

 

[Arob]

You cant see this but I'm wringing my hands apologetically

OK Toronto Forumers, esp, keithz, TonyV, doady, generationW etc

I did make a mistake but not detailing WHY in my initial post.

And I made another mistake by calling out that paid schill for the PC's - it was an emotional response to him saying I was a separatist - no excuses, that PR company has a right to propagate their messages same as everyone else.

After such a long absence away I can hardly respond to your individual queries now ... but suffice to say,

I am always impressed with how volatile and alive this place is . This is one of the best forums on the web because you people care and you are all so intelligent in your responses.

Keithz calm down - I'm a real person you can look at my threads in many diverse categories. However in full disclosure I will admit I used to work for an interactive web company that marketed Alliance movies on here back in 2006 - so I know paid posts when I see them. The pattern is always the same - just a few posts, always with a message or link, seldom any replies and generally no avatar or any personal details. They work 9-5 and when the marketing campaign ends, they are gone.

Finally, I probably don't have to tell you all my reasons for NOT voting conservative - you know them already. For me however the biggest single reason to say no to the Harper government is what happened during the G20. I saw the police state. And I just can't believe there has still not been a full public inquiry? despite the fact that so many agencies have called for one... the problem is at the top.

I just cant believe Police Chief Bill Blair still has his job (and a couple of sound cannons, and illegal cameras downtown), but he does because Stephen Harper doesn't think anything went wrong - he has never apologized for anything related to the spending or arrests. He doesn't like democracy and that has been shown over and over again . He likes building jails, and he likes getting tough on crime - he's ready for the police state. He's building it.

 

[Earth Heals Herself]

OK Toronto Forumers, esp, keithz, TonyV, doady, generationW etc

I did make a mistake but not detailing WHY in my initial post.

And I made another mistake by calling out that paid schill for the PC's - it was an emotional response to him saying I was a separatist - no excuses, that PR company has a right to propagate their messages same as everyone else.

After such a long absence away I can hardly respond to your individual queries now ... but suffice to say,

I am always impressed with how volatile and alive this place is . This is one of the best forums on the web because you people care and you are all so intelligent in your responses.

Keithz calm down - I'm a real person you can look at my threads in many diverse categories. However in full disclosure I will admit I used to work for an interactive web company that marketed Alliance movies on here back in 2006 - so I know paid posts when I see them. The pattern is always the same - just a few posts, always with a message or link, seldom any replies and generally no avatar or any personal details. They work 9-5 and when the marketing campaign ends, they are gone.

Finally, I probably don't have to tell you all my reasons for NOT voting conservative - you know them already. For me however the biggest single reason to say no to the Harper government is what happened during the G20. I saw the police state. And I just can't believe there has still not been a full public inquiry? despite the fact that so many agencies have called for one... the problem is at the top.

I just cant believe Police Chief Bill Blair still has his job (and a couple of sound cannons, and illegal cameras downtown), but he does because Stephen Harper doesn't think anything went wrong - he has never apologized for anything related to the spending or arrests. He doesn't like democracy and that has been shown over and over again . He likes building jails, and he likes getting tough on crime - he's ready for the police state. He's building it.

What exactly is bad about getting tough on crime?

 

[adma]

What exactly is bad about getting tough on crime?

It ain't what you do, it's the way that you do it, I suppose. And remember: even Jack Layton played a deft version of the "tough on crime" pitch during the 2006 election, thanks to the Jane Creba shooting in the middle of it all...

 

[doady]

What exactly is bad about getting tough on crime?

If gettign tough on crimes means things like building jails for "unreported crimes", like the Conservatives are doing now, then it doesn't really make much sense. If the crime rate is dropping, as it is in Canada, and has been for awhile, then it suggests that more jails and tougher punishments are probably unneccessary, even if more jails and tougher punishments were proven to be effective at reducing crime, and they have not.

 

[gristle]

Is that a fact, Arob? Care to provide some proof of that?

All you have to say is that you are absolutely not a member of that organization, nor have you ever been. Simple as that.