[Videodrome]

Do you understand the hypocrisy in slamming people for painting all Muslims with the same brush, then turning around and doing the exact same thing with respect to 'CPC supporters'? Do you understand how incredibly offensive your comment is?? I understand that there is a political element here, but there is a far more responsible way to express it than this. These individuals acting in this way are lone-wolf crackpots and do not represent the opinion of the majority of Canadians, conservative or otherwise.

Harper and the CPC enabled this behavior with their racism and xenophobia during the election campaign.

 

[ttk77]

These people have a humanitarian right to live in peace in their homeland. Your suggestion that we turn our back on them is beyond heartless. We have an obligation to help them with finances, with aid, and with a solution to ISIS. Integrating 6million people (and growing), en masse, into Europe and North America is not a sustainable option. No rational individual would dispute this.

... and I'm not suggesting we shouldn't accept any refugees, merely that this '25K by Christmas' election promise is more political and symbolic than truly helpful to the wider situation.

Excuse me? I can only assume you either meant to quote someone else or you completely missread my post. Where in there did I ever suggest that we turn our backs on them? Have you seen pictures of their homeland? It's rubble. They will not be returning home anytime soon. We either let them stay in cramped, crime ridden, unsafe refugee camps or we or we settle them someplace safe where they can restart their lives. Accepting refugees is the only near to mid term solution that has any hope of ending the refugee crisis.

 

[gabe]

Islam is no more an extremist ideology than Christianity, or many other religions. There are bloody passages in the Koran, but also in the Bible (if not moreso). The extremism is not the religions themselves, but the deranged who use religion as the pretext and justification for violence. Christianity has a violent history itself, and it wasn't that long ago that Christians themselves were involved in sectarian violence against themselves and others.

Sure. But Christianity's doctrine has evolved. Islam's hasn't. You're missing that key point. Islam is still living in the dark ages. There are moderate Muslims but they are in the minority in Islamic countries. The crazies are driving the bus over there. Name one majority Muslim nation on earth that is not misogynistic, homophobic, anti-Semitic and hostile to minorities? Muslim leaders of these countries believe that violence is an acceptable solution to punish speech they don't agree with, is it really that surprising that a terrorist would use the same methods. I don't understand why there are so many apologists in regards to Islam, Liberal views (civil rights, human rights and freedom of speech) on are the side which would be very much opposed to Islamism and sharia etc in the west and elsewhere.

 

[Skeezix]

It's rather alarming that you feel there is no hope for this region, that you would advocate that the world abandon it. I do sincerely have to question the motivations of such a viewpoint...

Never said there is no hope for this region. You're complaining about false allegations from others, but then making false allegations yourself.

There is honour in Canada's traditional role of stepping up where there is conflict in the world. The story of the St. Louis is a tragedy, no question, but Canada did step up for the larger cause, that of fighting and defeating Nazi Germany in World War II, and at enormous cost and sacrifice as we just honoured on Remembrance Day. As an analogue, I am not suggesting we turn our back on a 'shipload' of refugees - whether a politically motivated and arbitrary target of 25K by year-end makes any real sense or not, ok fine - but you and Tuscanio are suggesting that Canada does not engage in the greater conflict. You would save the ship yet abandon the millions of others when saving the ship is actually the easy way out.

Nope. Never said that either.

 

[ttk77]

Sure. But Christianity's doctrine has evolved. Islam's hasn't. You're missing that key point. Islam is still living in the dark ages. There are moderate Muslims but they are in the minority in Islamic countries. The crazies are driving the bus over there. Name one majority Muslim nation on earth that is not misogynistic, homophobic, anti-Semitic and hostile to minorities? Muslim leaders of these countries believe that violence is an acceptable solution to punish speech they don't agree with, is it really that surprising that a terrorist would use the same methods. I don't understand why there are so many apologists in regards to Islam, Liberal views (civil rights, human rights and freedom of speech) on are the side which would be very much opposed to Islamism and sharia etc in the west and elsewhere.

You're generalizing. Yes the Muslim world has many problems, but they're not all like Syria/Iran/Iraq. Take a look at Turkey or Indonesia. They're not without problems, but you can't seriously put them in the same category as many of the Gulf states.

 

[Skeezix]

Sure. But Christianity's doctrine has evolved. Islam's hasn't. You're missing that key point. Islam is still living in the dark ages. There are moderate Muslims but they are in the minority in Islamic countries. The crazies are driving the bus over there. Name one majority Muslim nation on earth that is not misogynistic, homophobic, anti-Semitic and hostile to minorities? Muslim leaders of these countries believe that violence is an acceptable solution to punish speech they don't agree with, is it really that surprising that a terrorist would use the same methods. I don't understand why there are so many apologists in regards to Islam, Liberal views (civil rights, human rights and freedom of speech) on are the side which would be very much opposed to Islamism and sharia etc in the west and elsewhere.

That's all just a kettle of uninformed nonsense. I'm not missing the key point. There are plenty of violent, misogynist, homophobic, anti-Jew (most Muslims are Semitic), and hostile non-Muslim societies and governments. And organized Christianity has a terrible track record on all of those fronts. If you're actually claiming that the other major religions are somehow better or more "evolved" (whatever that means) than Islam, then it sounds like you're the apologist.

 

[Tewder]

Harper and the CPC enabled this behavior with their racism and xenophobia during the election campaign.

1. Please quote where Harper and the Conservative party instructed people to set fire to a mosque, which is what you are implying.
2. There is a wide spectrum of opinion among conservative Canadians, they do not all think alike. You have accused all Conservatives of racism and disgusting behaviour. This is cheap and ethically bankrupt in every way possible!

 

[Videodrome]

They didn't say that specifically of course. The problem was that the CPC spread a hate and fear agenda for the campaign and gave free reign for their supporters to say and do all kinds of horrible things.

The verdict for the Bruce Carson trial is being read right now and the Duffy trial is resuming.

 

[Skeezix]

Harper and the CPC certainly engaged in dog-whistle politics and fanned the flames of anti-Muslim sentiment for electoral gain. And when a political party climbs into the gutter to play that game, the results can be unpredictable, but I don't believe the intent was to generate actual violence. There is a big difference between that kind of inflammatory rhetoric, and how it typically gives rise to more inflammatory rhetoric, and the cowardice act of setting fire to a mosque. I don't think there is any link between the CPC campaign and the Peterborough mosque fire - the individuals who tried to burn down the mosque were likely hate-filled cowards long before anyone at the CPC uttered the word "niqab".

 

[Videodrome]

This is true. These people are also so stupid that they don't know the difference between a Hindu and Muslim...

http://www.cp24.com/news/former-harper-aide-not-guilty-of-influence-peddling-1.2662881

Bruce Carson was found not guilty of influence peddling.

 

[Tuscani01]

This is the second time you've insisted on this false allegation. You still haven't shown where I said this. Let's keep the discussion civil and stop the trolling. Being concerned about a mass influx of 25K refugees by the end of the year is not the same thing as claiming that refugees will never integrate or contribute long term to society.

THEY WERE YOUR OWN WORDS!

"It isn't a sustainable option. There are some 6million people displaced. Are we to take them all in? Pay for all of them?"

Nobody is saying take in all of them. That's a red herring. 25k refugees per year isn't much of a commitment in a country of 35 million and as large as Canada. The contributions they can make to this country will outweigh the initial cost to bring them here, which is also tiny when looking at the fact that Canada has a multi ($300) billion dollar budget.

You brought up money as the reason, i'm not putting words in your mouth as you've done with so many other posters above.

 

[W. K. Lis]

In 1939, Canada turned back 907 German Jews on a ship. From this link:

They needed Canada’s help and Canada said no.

It was 1939 and 907 Jewish refugees aboard the German transatlantic liner St. Louis were seeking sanctuary from Nazi Germany. Canada refused to take them in and the ship sailed back to Europe, where 254 would later die in concentration camps.

Sound familiar?

 

[sixrings]

In 1939, Canada turned back 907 German Jews on a ship. From this link:



Sound familiar?

I am embarrassed of this story as a Canadian as well. We never seem to mention this but we put ourselves before others and it cost people their lives. As Canadians I would think that we would strive to be a country of hope, not fear.

 

[BurlOak]

I do not recall any stories about those refugees plotting terror against Canadians - but the Liberal government decided to turn them back anyways.

 

[nfitz]

I can't imagine anyone objecting to us only taking in 20,000 refugees a year for the next few years - well, unless they think that's too low. We had no problems taking 55,000 Vietnamese refugees at the same time as 13,000 Cambodian refugees after the Vietnam war. That's 68,000 refugees when Canada's population was about 2/3 of what it is now. That would be the equivalent to over 100,000 refugees now.

And this was just after we took in 13,000 Chilean refugees, 7,000 Ugandan refugees, 20,000 Soviet Jews, and I'm not sure how many Iranian refugees after the fall of the Shah.