Admiral Beez
Superstar
Vice-Adm. Norman seems like a credible and good leader, watching out for his sailors. Why can't Trudeau just leave policy execution to the professionals - your justice minister should be your guide, not the other way round.
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- Thread starter King of Kensington
- Start date
lenaitch
Senior Member
It seems all governments become sleazy in the name of obtaining or protecting power; it's just a matter of time and topic. Add to that a bureaucracy that has lost the desire or ability to speak truth to power. The one reason the 'Norman-thing' hasn't gained the same traction is that anything to do with the military seems to be a blind spot to the majority of the Canadian population and media. Ethical and rule of law issues aside, given the dollars involved, the inefficiencies, dithering, pandering and, dare I say, corrupt, by all recent governments is staggering. It even extends now to the Coast Guard that apparently can't design ships that don't make their crews barf:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/coast-guard-ships-can-t-handle-rough-seas-1.5009312
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/coast-guard-ships-can-t-handle-rough-seas-1.5009312
Northern Light
Superstar
Jody Wilson-Raybould has resigned from cabinet!
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wilson-rayboul-snc-lavalin-1.5015755
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wilson-rayboul-snc-lavalin-1.5015755
BurlOak
Senior Member
https://montrealgazette.com/news/lo...jody-wilson-raybould-resigns-amid-allegations
I think it's true. JWR's presence in cabinet would show she has confidence in Trudeau and agrees with his recent statements.
BurlOak
Senior Member
What is worse - Trdueau's destruction of his indigenous image.
Is the SNC-Lavalin scandal’s biggest victim Trudeau’s relationship with Indigenous people?
or the destruction of his feminist image.
or just his plain old bullying.
Everything the actor was trying to portray is collapsing. (His campaign promise of good, open honest government was destroyed long ago).
The next questions are:
Is the SNC-Lavalin scandal’s biggest victim Trudeau’s relationship with Indigenous people?
or the destruction of his feminist image.
or just his plain old bullying.
Everything the actor was trying to portray is collapsing. (His campaign promise of good, open honest government was destroyed long ago).
The next questions are:
- Will JWR leave the Liberal Caucus?
- Will Trudeau beat her to it and kick her out?
- Will any other Liberal ministers or backbenchers show enough integrity to leave the Liberal Caucus?
Jasmine18
Senior Member
Lol as most powerful progressive men go on endlessly about respecting women... when women become an obstacle to power they are 'just bitches'
Roy G Biv
Senior Member
@BurlOak
Totally agree with you on Trudeau, but I'm wondering about your views on:
- the concept of remediation/deferred prosecution agreements
- how cozy governments are with big business
- the obvious fact that Harper's government would have done the same as Trudeau's (but perhaps not got caught)
- governments fighting for large business in a much more proactive way than for affordable housing, homelessness, the environment etc
Totally agree with you on Trudeau, but I'm wondering about your views on:
- the concept of remediation/deferred prosecution agreements
- how cozy governments are with big business
- the obvious fact that Harper's government would have done the same as Trudeau's (but perhaps not got caught)
- governments fighting for large business in a much more proactive way than for affordable housing, homelessness, the environment etc
Northern Light
Superstar
I find the behavior of the PMO here to be less than acceptable.
That said, I'm not sure I get the angle that this is somehow anti-feminist. I would assume a male minister would have been similarly strong-armed, and that a failure to play ball might have meant a demotion or ouster from cabinet.
That would be every bit as unacceptable, but not bias against men.
Is there something in the commentary that suggests this is a particular betrayal of women/feminists or is it merely more politics as usual, and tarnishing his reputation accordingly as it should?
lenaitch
Senior Member
It's difficult to know with certainty, but it appears that Cabinet and the PMO are eager (desperate?) to hold onto Quebec votes. I don't have a huge problem with the use of 'deferred prosecution' resolutions (they have been used for years in relation to criminal charges against individuals for years) but there is a need to consider the credibility of the company, and maybe that's what concerned JW-R. This doesn't appear as a one-off rogue employee situation that the company would have us believe. They were caught making 'questionable' political contributions as well as integrity concerns in relation to construction of a Montreal hospital and a bridge - which may soon be the subject of criminal charges.
If an accused is to be considered for a 'patch' (deal, leniency, etc.), the Crown should be satisfied that it is, in fact, a one-off incident and there is true contrition. Perhaps JW-R was not so convinced. A lawyer with integrity - could it be so?
What really concerns me is whether this was something driven by the PM himself or by the non-elected political staffers in the PMO. The outsized influence of non-elected partisan hacks - which has its watershed with Trudeau Sr. - and the centralization of power to them, in areas of the actual functioning of Parliament, is dangerous.
If an accused is to be considered for a 'patch' (deal, leniency, etc.), the Crown should be satisfied that it is, in fact, a one-off incident and there is true contrition. Perhaps JW-R was not so convinced. A lawyer with integrity - could it be so?
What really concerns me is whether this was something driven by the PM himself or by the non-elected political staffers in the PMO. The outsized influence of non-elected partisan hacks - which has its watershed with Trudeau Sr. - and the centralization of power to them, in areas of the actual functioning of Parliament, is dangerous.
jje1000
Senior Member
Yikes, this is a case where the "cover-up" is more telling than the evidence we've seen so far:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/liber...house-probe-into-snc-lavalin-affair-1.4294801
https://globalnews.ca/news/4955694/justice-committee-investigate-snc-lavalin/
Also interested in seeing how CBC will cover this- will they try to characterize Wilson-Raybould to discredit her?
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/liber...house-probe-into-snc-lavalin-affair-1.4294801
https://globalnews.ca/news/4955694/justice-committee-investigate-snc-lavalin/
Also interested in seeing how CBC will cover this- will they try to characterize Wilson-Raybould to discredit her?
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lenaitch
Senior Member
Every majority government with control of committees has exerted its will over opposition motions. I'm not necessarily defending this particular session, just that every government has done it for their own reasons. I don't know a solution. Political staff exist in a weird dimension; their not elected and not public servants. They not there to speak truth to power; they're there to promote power.
pman
Senior Member
Score 1 for whattaboutitis.
BurlOak
Senior Member
It seems similar to a plea deal, which is an important part of our legal system. If should be the justice system that decides based on the prospects of conviction at trial. it should not be a political decision.
The general rule of thumb is that Liberals are cozy with big business, NDP with big Unions, and Conservatives with small business. I believe this is borne out from where each recieves their donations. If I recall correctly, the SNC illegal political donations where >$100k to the Liberals and <$10k to the CPC. Of course there is some overlap.
Based on the fact that Harper did not do this over the 10 years he was in power - I think this is 100% false.
see above.
BurlOak
Senior Member
Now this is getting comical.
‘We need to hear from the attorney general herself’: Navdeep Bains on SNC-Lavalin affair
Trudeau will not waive solicitor-client privilege, and Liberal majority Justice Committee votes 5-4 (all Liberals voting together) to not call Jody Wilson-Raybould to testify, and now Trudeau's strategy is for Ministers to insist that we must wait until JWR speaks.
Justin Trudeau condemns ‘sexist, racist’ comments about Jody Wilson-Raybould’s character
Trudeau's team decides to disparage JWR with various criticisms (didn't say anything, difficult to work with, in it for herself), and Trudeau himself continually belittles JWR by using her first name, while others (Mayor of Winnipeg, new AG) he uses their surname, and now Trudeau says that "others" should cease and desist.
What an embarrassment he is.
‘We need to hear from the attorney general herself’: Navdeep Bains on SNC-Lavalin affair
Trudeau will not waive solicitor-client privilege, and Liberal majority Justice Committee votes 5-4 (all Liberals voting together) to not call Jody Wilson-Raybould to testify, and now Trudeau's strategy is for Ministers to insist that we must wait until JWR speaks.
Justin Trudeau condemns ‘sexist, racist’ comments about Jody Wilson-Raybould’s character
Trudeau's team decides to disparage JWR with various criticisms (didn't say anything, difficult to work with, in it for herself), and Trudeau himself continually belittles JWR by using her first name, while others (Mayor of Winnipeg, new AG) he uses their surname, and now Trudeau says that "others" should cease and desist.
What an embarrassment he is.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Perhaps you could cite an instance when a Conservative government was in power and allowed an opposition motion questioning Government action or policy. Don't get me wrong - I'm not defending this Government, just pointing out that they are doing what every single government before them has done.
First names vs. surnames? Reaching a little much?