[Jasmine18]

The Conservatives are far more likely to screw you over and make your overtime pay regular pay.

But you do you.

I be honest as long as Trudeau is the head of the liberal policy I am not voting for them.

 

[steveintoronto]

^ And I'd agree, but that's nothing to do with Carbon Tax, and people 'voting against it'...since the polls show that even majority Cons are for it, and an overwhelming majority of normal people.

 

[Jasmine18]

^ And I'd agree, but that's nothing to do with Carbon Tax, and people 'voting against it'...since the polls show that even majority Cons are for it, and an overwhelming majority of normal people.

It does not matter if majority are for it, if 36-40% who are against rally behind a single party they kill the carbon tax and that is why i am counting on to kill the tax.

You can think the Justin Trudeau for that with his fail of electoral reform.

 

[steveintoronto]

It does not matter if majority are for it, if 36-40% who are against rally behind a single party they kill the carbon tax and that is why i am counting on to kill the tax.

lol...I see.

The Ontario government's latest salvo against the federal carbon tax is being mocked online for appearing to accidentally promote the very cause it hoped to attack.
Political observers and social media users say the television ad prepared by the Progressive Conservative government, a vocal opponent of the tax that came into effect on April 1, missed the mark.
While a narrator cooly lists ways in which the province contends the carbon tax would raise prices on everything from gas to groceries, images show cascades of change pouring out of air vents, fuel pumps and store shelves.
When one economics professor and regular political commentator questioned whether the brains behind the ad had troubled to watch it on mute, a staffer with the federal Liberals took it upon himself to prepare an alternative.

• Ford government ups ante in carbon tax fight with new TV ad
• Ontario Green party parodies Doug Ford's carbon tax stickers

His parody featured a pro-carbon tax voiceover synced up with the identical images that feature in the Ontario attack ad.
Ad reinforces Ottawa's message on rebates, expert says
"It works great," Wilfrid Laurier University digital communications associate professor Simon Kiss said of the spoof. "The script in the parody is honestly more logical and fits the visuals better than the government's own ad."
Kiss noted that the visuals also reinforce a key message carbon tax proponents have been touting, namely that federal rebates would offset if not outright eliminate the financial toll the tax could take on most Canadians.

The Progressive Conservatives did not respond to questions about the reaction to the commercial, which concludes by inviting Ontario residents to become familiar with the government's climate change plan.
But a spokeswoman for Ontario Environment Minister Rod Phillips accused the feds of being misleading in their efforts to promote the tax, which was imposed on provinces that had opted not to implement their own efforts to curb carbon emissions.
"They have promoted their plan by mailing postcards to every household in our province, airing radio advertisements and running an extensive online campaign, and on every occasion have failed to disclose the full cost of their carbon tax," Emily Hogeveen said in a statement.
'This is actually hilarious'
When asked about the cost of the government's advertising campaign against the carbon tax, Hogeveen said it would be disclosed at a later date. Days after the Tories' ads first hit the airwaves, many social media users were still freely mocking the commercial.
"I filled up today and not one nickel dropped," wrote one Twitter user. "I brought a bucket to the grocers to catch the money waterfall, but alas, nothing. Maybe file complaints to the CRTC for this misleading advert."
"This is actually hilarious," wrote another.

• Ford government's anti-carbon tax ad hits the airwaves — but leaves out some key details

"The obvious symbolism would have been, oh, I don't know, say a vacuum cleaner sucking money out of people's wallets. How much did the PCs pay the ad agency that came up with this?"
While Kiss said the Ontario government undermined their own message this time around, he suspects the ad won't do much to shift public opinion one way or another.
"People who have a dim view of the carbon tax, this is just going to kind of reaffirm those prior beliefs," he said. "And it's going to just anger people who are on the other side."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-anti-carbon-tax-ad-backfires-1.5139384

 

[PinkLucy]

So all of those youth demonstrating for months in Montreal for climate action won’t support a carbon tax? I thought the younger generation recognizes what is going on and supports initiatives to slow climate change because they care about their future.

 

[steveintoronto]

So all of those youth demonstrating for months in Montreal for climate action won’t support a carbon tax? I thought the younger generation recognizes what is going on and supports initiatives to slow climate change because they care about their future.

It's a time to be politically cynical, but it's also a time to be hopeful the youth you speak of might actually be gathering their druthers. This is starting to show in a number of social arenas. And it's showing in other nation's politics, where the Greens are on the rise (and we're seeing that here in Canada now) and youth is regaining a voice (certainly seeing this in the US, of all places to be cynical about). The Democratic primaries are being driven by youth. YES! They may be young and naive, but it's their world, and someone's got to take responsibility for fixing the steering.

I think the Carbon Tax Debate will be a watershed, all puns intended, in Cdn politics. And it's not for the Liberals to lay claim to it. They can be default part of it.

A reference for my claims on US Youth above:
The Coming Generation War
The Democrats are rapidly becoming the party of the young—and the consequences could be profound.
MAY 6, 2019
Niall Ferguson
Co-director of the Harvard Kennedy School’s Applied History Project
Eyck Freymann
Research analyst at Greenmantle

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/05/coming-generation-war/588670/

 

[Northern Light]

It's a time to be politically cynical, but it's also a time to be hopeful the youth you speak of might actually be gathering their druthers. This is starting to show in a number of social arenas. And it's showing in other nation's politics, where the Greens are on the rise (and we're seeing that here in Canada now) and youth is regaining a voice (certainly seeing this in the US, of all places to be cynical about). The Democratic primaries are being driven by youth. YES! They may be young and naive, but it's their world, and someone's got to take responsibility for fixing the steering.

I think the Carbon Tax Debate will be a watershed, all puns intended, in Cdn politics. And it's not for the Liberals to lay claim to it. They can be default part of it.

A reference for my claims on US Youth above:
The Coming Generation War
The Democrats are rapidly becoming the party of the young—and the consequences could be profound.
MAY 6, 2019
Niall Ferguson
Co-director of the Harvard Kennedy School’s Applied History Project
Eyck Freymann
Research analyst at Greenmantle

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/05/coming-generation-war/588670/

A good article link! Thank You.

In turn, may I suggest "Utopia for Realists" by Rutger Bregman.

I don't agree w/everything he has to say; but I think he has the gist right, and he writes in a very accessible way, that makes the reading more light than laborious.

Utopia For Realists: How We Can Build The Ideal World

<STRONG>Universal basic income. A 15-hour workweek. Open borders. Does it sound too good to be true? One of Europe''s leading young thinkers shows how we can build an ideal world today.</STRONG><br><br>"A more politically radical Malcolm Gladwell." --<I>New York Times</I><br><br>After working...

www.chapters.indigo.ca

 

[steveintoronto]

A good article link! Thank You.

In turn, may I suggest "Utopia for Realists" by Rutger Bregman.

I don't agree w/everything he has to say; but I think he has the gist right, and he writes in a very accessible way, that makes the reading more light than laborious.

Utopia For Realists: How We Can Build The Ideal World

<STRONG>Universal basic income. A 15-hour workweek. Open borders. Does it sound too good to be true? One of Europe''s leading young thinkers shows how we can build an ideal world today.</STRONG><br><br>"A more politically radical Malcolm Gladwell." --<I>New York Times</I><br><br>After working...

www.chapters.indigo.ca

[...]
The trouble with today’s liberals – witness Hillary Clinton or any of Labour’s recent past or present leadership – is that they have lost any comparable vision, however far-fetched or unrealistic. Utopia has become the preserve of the right. It is Mr Trump and Mr Farage who dream of a world of America and Britain first, revelling in low taxes and little or no state, liberated from the dark forces of the UN, World Trade Organisation and the EU.

The liberal left, declares Rutger Bregman, a 28-year-old Dutch historian, has no comparable vision. Working family tax credits or spending 0.7% of GDP on aid simply don’t cut it. Liberals can hardly inspire themselves, let alone the electorate. Gone is a belief in socialism, science, great international institutions or even a willingness to experiment with new ways of living.
[...]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...ts-how-we-can-get-there-rutger-bregman-review

I think...I hope, that is changing. I've got to add to that that the first real sense of affinity I had for the Greens, at least in Canada, was listening closely and reading Mike Schreiner's platform last campaign. What got my attention was his *pragmatism*, and the ability to present a platform that spanned multiples past his election stint. And he costed it all. This isn't just a pilot who talks of fantastic destinations. It's one that can fly you there, but he makes clear what it will cost to do it.

That is quite rare in politics nowadays, but I think more people are willing to listen, to join the effort of what it will take to get there. The BS just isn't selling like it used to. And it seems Youth are catching on to that. There's hope...

 

[Northern Light]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...ts-how-we-can-get-there-rutger-bregman-review

I think...I hope, that is changing. I've got to add to that that the first real sense of affinity I had for the Greens, at least in Canada, was listening closely and reading Mike Schreiner's platform last campaign. What got my attention was his *pragmatism*, and the ability to present a platform that spanned multiples past his election stint. And he costed it all. This isn't just a pilot who talks of fantastic destinations. It's one that can fly you there, but he makes clear what it will cost to do it.

That is quite rare in politics nowadays, but I think more people are willing to listen, to join the effort of what it will take to get there. The BS just isn't selling like it used to. And it seems Youth are catching on to that. There's hope...

The need is there to shift the political discourse.

Bregman is correct, in my judgement is arguing that many on the left lack a compelling/bold promise, even before addressing the means to implement it.

Both are needed; the ambition to drive a better, fairer, more responsible world; balanced with a realistic plan to get there.

Bregman is far-fetched, in the near term, with his 15-hour work week, and the politics of basic income isn 't yet there.

But higher levels of paid vacation; a 35-hour work week, and a gradual shift in the direction of basic income are all viable ideas; though the latter two aren't yet platform-ready in this country.

What I appreciate in the Greens is that sense that business isn't evil; that balanced budgets are good; yet taxes must rise some, labour standards too, and government and business alike need to better
factor sustainability into the everyday model of operations.

I'm not a partisan for the Greens but I think they offer something needed and refreshing in the political discourse, and I look forward to their growth in politics not only for its own sake, but in giving other established parties a swift kick to get
their act together.

Or one can dream, anyway.

 

[jje1000]

My theory is that beyond the 80s, progressiveness has largely turned from practical to theoretical as university-educated progressives have taken over the traditional 'workers' rights' old guard.

I believe that progressives still have various 'visions' (I.e. The Green New Deal), but that that vision is largely abstract to their traditional working-class voter base which might not particularly care about said issues. These visions may also conflict with areas that employ the working class (i.e. Mining, energy, manufacturing), and may present themselves as callous.

Conversely, Conservative issues like taxes, the economy and immigration are extremely visceral to that segment (people noticing their living standards decreasing since the 70s, more 'ethnics' around them, more precarious living conditions), which may be a reason why the Conservatives have had success in gaining a hold there. I also think that was the reason why the $15 minimum wage fight was seemingly popular/controversial with the public, as it was a very visceral and immediate thing.

Thankfully I think that the presence of the NDP has staved off some of this in Canada, unlike the US where this newer segment of theorists have largely captured the Democratic Party. I would still like some further pragmatism from all parties, but that remains to be seen- the closest I've seen that is in Quebec.

 

[steveintoronto]

I believe that progressives still have various 'visions' (I.e. The Green New Deal), but that that vision is largely abstract to their traditional working-class voter base which might not particularly care about said issues. These visions may also conflict with areas that employ the working class (i.e. Mining, energy, manufacturing), and may present themselves as callous.

'Populism' (even though an overused term) is still a rampant factor.

 

[jje1000]

'Populism' (even though an overused term) is still a rampant factor.

I agree that populism is a strong factor (as it usually deals with visceral issues), but it's also very vague term and is one that has been overused in it's application to the right. Doug Ford's 'For the People' is populism, so is Legault's religious symbol ban, and AOC and Sander's appeals of inequality and intersectionality are also populist appeals.

Populism isn't inherently a bad thing and has always been part of politics- but it needs to be used in moderation like most things. In fact, you can have a fairly pragmatic government otherwise that dabbles in the occasional bit of populism (as Quebec and Denmark shows).

 

[steveintoronto]

I agree that populism is a strong factor (as it usually deals with visceral issues), but it's also very vague term and is one that has been overused in it's application to the right. Doug Ford's 'For the People' is populism...

I'll revisit this, if we're going to make sense and progress on our present sub-string, it's going to have to be at least somewhat defined, but I just did a quick perusal and this popped up:

Populism is a range of political approaches that deliberately appeal to "the people", often juxtaposing this group against the "elite". ... Other scholars active in the social sciences have defined the term populism in different ways.

Populism - Wikipedia

Ouch...

 

[Jasmine18]

So all of those youth demonstrating for months in Montreal for climate action won’t support a carbon tax? I thought the younger generation recognizes what is going on and supports initiatives to slow climate change because they care about their future.

Those are people that are also quite politically active.

Also do note ,I know people who go on Tumblr and protest everything and still dont vote XD


Trudeau is likely hoping a huge surge of young voters will save him in Oct and I dont think its coming.

 

[tiffer24]

How Canada's growing anti-abortion movement plans to swing the next federal election -

https://www.macleans.ca/politics/ho...ent-plans-to-swing-the-next-federal-election/