[nfitz]

Yes. And in terms of terrorism, that is virtually an Islamic problem, exclusively. It isn't Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists that are slaughtering people that don't view the world through a similar lens.

What complete and utter bullshit.

Such extreme racism is terrorism in itself. And why tell such huge lies? Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, and even Buddhists do indeed slaughter people that don't view the world do indeed slaughter people.

From a Canadian perspective, I can't even of a single incident where there have been more than one death from Islamic terrorists. But I have no problems find mass killings by Christians and others.

From a demographic point of view, to save the most lives we should deport white males.

Thursday, Minister of Defense says ISIS only a regional problem.
Friday morning Trudeau releases a grade school like letter to Minister that first task is to withdraw from ISIS fight.

Surely Trudeau should get respect for releasing the mandate letters. Where are Harper's mandate letters - oh right, they were kept secret.

And surely stopping indiscriminate bombing is a good thing. There's no evidence that it has done anything.

Then on Saturday it turns out the attackers were phony refugees - shedding light on how wreckless a promise it was to try and bring 25000 refugees (plus the migrants and terrorists hidden amongst them) to Canada before Christmas.

??? All the identified attackers have been French. Not sure what that has to do with stopping refugees.

These terrorists are what the refugees are fleeing from. Should Canada have stopped accepting Jewish refugees in the 1930s, in case a Nazi slipped in by accident? Oh wait, our racist government DID stop accepting Jewish refugees. We need to learn from our mistakes, and not do this twice. We need to expedite the Syrian refugees coming from Canada?

Essentially, the past few days shows that Stephen Harper was 100% right and Trudeau entire platform was based on fantasy.

A racist like Harper is never right. The bottom line, if that if you support a racist, you are a racist.

We need to deport the racists.

 

[Adjei]

Huh?

As someone said people are still salty.

 

[Adjei]

One thing I don't like is this whole 25 000 refugee issue and the need to meet this end of the year deadline. I think most Canadians are pretty reasonable and will not mind if not all 25 000 are here by the end of the year. As long as the process is there to bring them in and there are some here, I think people will be fine with it. Sure there will be some people complaining about the deadline but they will have complained anyways if all 25 000 were here by the end of the year. It's better to take the time and do this properly instead of rushing just to meet some useless deadline. That's the problem with with politicians. They are so afraid to say that they've made a mistake and do things properly even when there are better options for them to take. We are seeing the same thing with John Tory and his SmartTrack.

 

[nfitz]

There's no indication they are cutting corners. I don't think anyone thinks they are going to have 25,000 through the door by January 1. That's not really the point; the point it so to remove the roadblocks created by the Conservatives to keep refugees out of Canada.

 

[Adjei]

Well going by their statements it sure seems like they are adamant on having 25,000 here by year's end:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...-decision-to-admit-syrian-25000-refugees.html

 

[TOareaFan]

my biggest concern at the minute is there seems to be a growing "just shut up" approach to any comments/criticisms/suggestions about where we go from here.

I have seen many people, on twitter for example, shouted down for saying something as simple as "should we reconsider our decision to pull out"....those people get twitter-bombed for partisan politics and politicizing Paris (as if it was not a political act in itself). Whatever we do in this country, we should never slide to the point where people are shamed/banned/whatever for simply commenting (or even criticizing our government). The fact is, it may not even be possible for us to pull out now...a NATO member has declared they have been the victim of an act of war and that they are now at war.....I am no NATO expert, but I believe the basis of the NATO alliance is "1 at war, all at war".

Interestingly, the Ontario Minister of the Environment did not catch much heat for tweeting that the rise of ISIL is tied to his main cause....global climate change. But, I guess, not all politicizing is created equally.

The point is, that events change (or can change) actions.....and there is no shame if the government feels the events in Paris should lead to them re-looking at their intended approach. But trying to silence voices suggesting he, at least, look at the options seems very unlike our democratic traditions.

 

[Armour]

What complete and utter bullshit.

Such extreme racism is terrorism in itself. And why tell such huge lies? Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, and even Buddhists do indeed slaughter people that don't view the world do indeed slaughter people.

From a Canadian perspective, I can't even of a single incident where there have been more than one death from Islamic terrorists. But I have no problems find mass killings by Christians and others.

From a demographic point of view, to save the most lives we should deport white males.

Surely Trudeau should get respect for releasing the mandate letters. Where are Harper's mandate letters - oh right, they were kept secret.

And surely stopping indiscriminate bombing is a good thing. There's no evidence that it has done anything.

??? All the identified attackers have been French. Not sure what that has to do with stopping refugees.

These terrorists are what the refugees are fleeing from. Should Canada have stopped accepting Jewish refugees in the 1930s, in case a Nazi slipped in by accident? Oh wait, our racist government DID stop accepting Jewish refugees. We need to learn from our mistakes, and not do this twice. We need to expedite the Syrian refugees coming from Canada?

A racist like Harper is never right. The bottom line, if that if you support a racist, you are a racist.

We need to deport the racists.

Racism? We are talking about religion, not skin colour. What does race have to do with anything that has been mentioned? The largest Muslim nation on the planet is Indonesia. A far cry -- in terms of physical appearance -- compared to Middle Eastern Muslims; which is what comes to mind, for most, when referencing Muslims.

What do you mean by: "From a Canadian perspective?" Are you referring to terrorist attacks carried out in Canada or are you are you discussing ones that occur abroad? Whatever you're saying, those that use Christ's name as leverage to carry out acts of terror are doing so despite their apparent convictions. Christ never condoned murder or violence towards those with dissenting beliefs, whereas Muslims are actually commanded to kill those with dissimilar views.

Luke 6:27-36New International Version (NIV)
Love for Enemies
27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you?Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

 

[nfitz]

my biggest concern at the minute is there seems to be a growing "just shut up" approach to any comments/criticisms/suggestions about where we go from here.

It's hard to link our indiscriminate and ineffective bombing in Iraq with any impact on French and Belgian terrorists. Perhaps if someone could quantify it ....

Racism? We are talking about religion, not skin colour. What does race have to do with anything that has been mentioned?

Those muslims we talk primarily seem to be a of a different race than many of us here though. It'd disingenuous to claim there's no racism involved here. But if it bothers you, replace "racism" with "xenophobic bigotry" when you read my post.

The largest Muslim nation on the planet is Indonesia. A far cry -- in terms of physical appearance -- compared to Middle Eastern Muslims; which is what comes to mind, for most, when referencing Muslims.

Not sure your point - and I saw this as a former Indonesian resident.

What do you mean by: "From a Canadian perspective?" Are you referring to terrorist attacks carried out in Canada or are you are you discussing ones that occur abroad?

I'm referring to terrorist attacks in Canada. Most are perpetuated by white males from a Christian heritage. Offhand, I can't think of one by a Muslim with multiple deaths - though I've hardly tabulated it - and I've surely missed one.

Whatever you're saying, those that use Christ's name as leverage to carry out acts of terror are doing so despite their apparent convictions. Christ never condoned murder or violence towards those with dissenting beliefs, whereas Muslims are actually commanded to kill those with dissimilar views.

That's complete and utter bullshit. There's enough garbage in the bible that command people to kill others, and perform other crimes against humanity. Both the Koran and Bible contain numerous contradictory viewpoints, and I doubt that most Muslims believe that the French terrorists are following Muslim teachings.

The bible and other books should be banned as hate literature as far as I'm concerned. And using it to try and justify that Christianity is better than Islam makes you little better than ISIL.

(well, not ready ban the bible - I oppose banning any book - maybe it should come with a warning though! )

 

[Armour]

It's hard to link our indiscriminate and ineffective bombing in Iraq with any impact on French and Belgian terrorists. Perhaps if someone could quantify it ....

Those muslims we talk primarily seem to be a of a different race than many of us here though. It'd disingenuous to claim there's no racism involved here. But if it bothers you, replace "racism" with "xenophobic bigotry" when you read my post.

Not sure your point - and I saw this as a former Indonesian resident.

What do you mean by: "From a Canadian perspective?" Are you referring to terrorist attacks carried out in Canada or are you are you discussing ones that occur abroad?

I'm referring to terrorist attacks in Canada. Most are perpetuated by white males from a Christian heritage. Offhand, I can't think of one by a Muslim with multiple deaths - though I've hardly tabulated it - and I've surely missed one.

That's complete and utter bullshit. There's enough garbage in the bible that command people to kill others, and perform other crimes against humanity. Both the Koran and Bible contain numerous contradictory viewpoints, and I doubt that most Muslims believe that the French terrorists are following Muslim teachings.

The bible and other books should be banned as hate literature as far as I'm concerned. And using it to try and justify that Christianity is better than Islam makes you little better than ISIL.[/QUOTE]

A Christian heritage? Really? Do you honestly believe that the majority of delinquents in our (western) and those in prison, are of Christian convictions? What is your evidence that said people are of a Christian heritage? And what does that mean? That they are devout followers of Christ, or that there was once a Christian affiliation in their families; for example, what Mel Brooks or Steven Spielberg are to Judaism (not actually followers of their ancestral faith)?

Do you not remember the thwarted attempt to assisinate the prime minister and blow up the CN Tower and the VIA rail incident? But why are you discussing things from a local pov, when the majority of terrorist attacks are happening overseas?

The bible is hate literature? I'm assuming you don't understand the difference between the Old and New Testaments. Those verses from Luke, which I posted above, disprove that claim. They demand that Christ's followers love their neighbours and their enemies. What is hateful about that? You're confusing those that use the bible to empower themselves to fight against others. That is the fault of individuals pushing their own selfish agendas, not the scriptures. Banning literature you disagree with is a form of facism.

 

[TOareaFan]

nfitz..can you fix your post above...you have accidently attributed a quote to me that was not by me.

 

[nfitz]

A Christian heritage? Really? Do you honestly believe that the majority of delinquents in our (western) and those in prison, are of Christian convictions?

No more so than I believe than any of the French or Belgian terrorists are of Muslim convictions. What they practice is no more Muslim than what the Westboro Baptist church practices is Christian.

But I'm talking about old-stock Canadians. White people from the UK and western Europe.

Do you not remember the thwarted attempt...

And yet, when you crunch the mass deaths in North America in the last decade, you don't see a lot of Muslims behind them.

It's not a surprise, when the Bible is full of instructions to kill people! Here's a few - there are many, many more. Clearly the bible is the work of the evil and of Satan! All who believes it words must be Satanists!

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

 

[Armour]

No more so than I believe than any of the French or Belgian terrorists are of Muslim convictions. What they practice is no more Muslim than what the Westboro Baptist church practices is Christian.

But I'm talking about old-stock Canadians. White people from the UK and western Europe.

And yet, when you crunch the mass deaths in North America in the last decade, you don't see a lot of Muslims behind them.

It's not a surprise, when the Bible is full of instructions to kill people!

The Westboro baptist church isn't congruent with the scriptures (they're basically to Christianity what Ford Nation is to conservatism). Most members probably haven't even read the bible. The difference is that the Quran clearly states (in over one hundred different verses) that the non-believer should be killed. Not one verse from Jesus exists. In fact, He says quite the opposite. You're painting a false equivalency.

That's because Muslims are a minority in the west. Of course there are going to be more violent offenders from different backgrounds.

 

[TOareaFan]

It's hard to link our indiscriminate and ineffective bombing in Iraq with any impact on French and Belgian terrorists. if someone could quantify it ....

My comment was not about the specific suggestions/comments being made but about the attitude of "shut up, you lost the election" that seems to be prevailing in, mostly Twitter's #cdnpoli discussion....it is almost as if, in the absence of parliament being open, people want the government to be able to act freely without the annoyance of having critics or opposition.

But, since you asked, a militant group operating in Iraq and Syria....the one that is the target of the air strikes....has claimed responsibility for the acts...so, while the actual gunmen and bombers may be from Belguim or France..it would appear they got planning/tactical/training/other support from that group....the same group that our new government, prior to being elected, agreed/acknowledged needs to be degraded but offered no idea on how they would contribute to the degrading once the Canadian planes came home. I think it is fair, in light of Friday, to ask what and how we will contribute and ask/suggest that in the meantime maybe the contribution to the current active mission is not a bad idea.

 

[TOareaFan]

Done - oops.

thx

 

[nfitz]

The difference is that the Quran clearly states (in over one hundred different verses) that the non-believer should be killed. Not one verse from Jesus exists. In fact, He says quite the opposite. You're painting a false equivalency.

I quoted numerous verses above in the bible that say non-believers should be killed. How can you possibly be so hyproctical as to criticize the Koran for containing the same messages as in the Bible.

That's because Muslims are a minority in the west. Of course there are going to be more violent offenders from different backgrounds.

Your just using your bigotry to support your prejudices. Shame on your for accusing Muslims of exactly the same things that Christians did first.