Solid Snake
Active Member
That's why the media is reporting. Their official documents does mention the Sheppard Line being build to STC (Metrolinx will surely tell them to end it at McCowan which should be cheaper than ending at STC)
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- Thread starter Solid Snake
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That's why the media is reporting. Their official documents does mention the Sheppard Line being build to STC (Metrolinx will surely tell them to end it at McCowan which should be cheaper than ending at STC)
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
Are you sure? It seems like creating a transit hub at STC would be much better..
Oh and road tolls.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ls-to-fund-transit-expansion/article15982442/
The Progressive Conservatives are hoping to ride a new east-west subway line to a political breakthrough in Toronto.
In a white paper on municipal policy Thursday, PC Leader Tim Hudak pledged to move the downtown relief line to the top of the province’s transit priority list if elected Premier. He also promised to extend the subway system further into Scarborough, north to Richmond Hill and west to Mississauga.
KDP
New Member
Is the Hamilton LRT considered suburban?
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Hudak has stated before that he would cancel the Hamilton LRT.
JasonParis
Moderator
Yes, but Hudak has also called for ending Metrolinx. And Tfl is barely comparable anyway. It's more an umbrella coordinating, fare collection and marketing body than an operating authority. It seems Metrolinx would be increasingly in the operating game. London Underground actually runs the Tube, not Tfl. Although, it's really hard to actually know that because everything is marketed via Tfl.Because Transport for London and Paris RATP are a disaster... riiightt!!!!
accura407
Car is King
Great point! I honestly think this is being missed consistently!
If the Gardiner and DVP become part of the MTO network, suddenly they are high priority routes under the provincial government. The City of Toronto is ideologically dead set against even the slightest improvement or modifications to these two highways and unfortunately this will never change (Even the Rob Ford Regime has failed to do anything)
Once it becomes uploaded, suddenly the province has two cash-cow roads that they can build HOT lanes and other facilities on. Furthermore, unlike the city of Toronto, the province would be able to find a proper solution for the gardiner replacement somewhere down the road...
Maintenance will be cheaper because the province has economies of scale in operations comparing to the city of Toronto. They also have much better design knowledge and innovation, look at 400 series highways! Even with their 1960s origins, they are constantly in innovation mode - Imagine if they 401 was maintained by the city! What a disaster that would be.
So that being said, suddenly the entire province of Ontario will share in the cost of 2 main thoroughfares. And that's a lot of money the city no longer has to budget for...
I think its a fair trade off for transit. Obviously we have to compare the numbers but I have a feeling the two sides would match. Long term, the city has firmly decided to be out of the expressway game, so let the city focus its revenues on local transit and let the province focus on highways and higher order transit.
Personally, I've always thought it would be a good idea if the government could get 407ETR to trade their highway for the Gardiner. 108km of suburban highway trade in for 18km of vital urban expressway... I think the GTA as a whole would win with that proposition... I'm curious if anyone in the government has contemplated it
innsertnamehere
Superstar
HOT expansion on the DVP and Gardiner would be insanely expensive as it would require large scale bridge replacement. Like the 400 widening to Barrie, it would have to be phased in through several decades as all the bridges over the highway are slowly replaced with wider ones.
the CN bridge in particular would be extremely expensive to replace, and MTO would probably insist on upgrading the DVP to 400 series standards. (I.E. rebuild most interchanges)
Regardless of who wins the next election we seem set for unprecedented transit network growth. The thing that scares me most in that document is getting rid of places to grow and the greenbelt, but I doubt that would happen in a minority government and I don't see Hudak getting a majority any time soon.
certain set revenue tools also seem imminent regardless of who wins office, though it would amount to small amounts of money in total. the 407 extension revenues seem set to go to transit expansion, and HOT tolls in HOV lanes seem to be supported by both parties as well. I can see getting maybe $300 million annually in set funds no matter who wins office. Not nearly enough, but a half decent start.
the CN bridge in particular would be extremely expensive to replace, and MTO would probably insist on upgrading the DVP to 400 series standards. (I.E. rebuild most interchanges)
Regardless of who wins the next election we seem set for unprecedented transit network growth. The thing that scares me most in that document is getting rid of places to grow and the greenbelt, but I doubt that would happen in a minority government and I don't see Hudak getting a majority any time soon.
certain set revenue tools also seem imminent regardless of who wins office, though it would amount to small amounts of money in total. the 407 extension revenues seem set to go to transit expansion, and HOT tolls in HOV lanes seem to be supported by both parties as well. I can see getting maybe $300 million annually in set funds no matter who wins office. Not nearly enough, but a half decent start.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
He's cancelling all the LRTs. If you don't use the Relief Line or Yonge (north of Finch) Hudak is really screwing you over.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Yes Hudak. What we need is urban sprawl. Because that has worked so well in every other sprawling city (sarcasm).
This guy is such an idiot.
Hipster Duck
Senior Member
I'm not too worried about Places to Grow and the Greenbelt being axed. I think that most of the suburban municipalities have seen the light, if only because they have nowhere to grow but up by this point. I also think that too much of our development and construction industry has made the shift from building wood-framed detached homes to building reinforced concrete highrise condo towers to easily go back. I also think that demographics (increasingly fewer people with kids), preference (increasingly fewer people interested in living in suburbia) and job growth (increasingly fewer companies wanting to move to a suburban office park) are all in our favour.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
The traditional suburban municipalities are nearing build out, though there are "non traditional" suburbs that are vying for growth but are currently restricted by the greenbelt. Stouffville, Keswick, Milton, etc, would be growing at a much faster rate if they could.
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
Don't forget Uxbridge and Bowmanville.
TFC
Active Member
As someone in the industry, I can say that the shift you mentioned has not yet taken place. The Greenbelt and Place to Grow are very much needed, as developers are very capable of continuing greenfield development despite progressive policies from suburban municipalities who've "seen the light".
An example is Waterloo Region. They've seen the light with progressive land use policies, light rail transit and a number of initiatives used for attracting development in their urban cores (which has been working!). In come the traditional home buildings, who appeal the Region's OP and win! The Region has now taken the OMB to court.
I think this proves that the Greenbelt and Places to Grow should remain in place, and must be strengthened. Without it, we can really say goodbye to greenfields in this province.
salsa
Senior Member
Can he still cancel the light rail projects in a minority government?
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Not without an NDP + PC support.
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