[AlvinofDiaspar]

How much does a DRL study cost, engineering included? Let's be really over the top generous at a 100M - any government can pay for that.

AoD

 

[sixrings]

The PC governments of yesteryear were very different from the PC party today. Hudak is a Harrisite Conservative, and Harris' government was the one known for cancelling an under-construction Eglinton West subway...

heres my problem with the comparison. Every government (NDP, PC, and LIBERAL) promised to cancel that Gas PLant. The money was going to be wasted by any government. I would have respected a government that said we have decided to build something and it costs too much to cancel it so its getting built. If that was the PCs mandate I would agree with them. But they come into power and they cancel contracts, take out bike lanes, do all sorts of things that dont respect the taxpayer in order to allegedly have respect for the tax payer.

 

[gweed123]

Nice analogy, though one that might hit closer to home is Walkerton and SARS. Jest aside, I have said, the financial conditions are more difficult now.

It's interesting how, when deficits linger around, the reaction of most people is to cut your way out of it. In Ontario, I honestly don't think that will work. Personally, I think increasing the deficit slightly in order to spend that money on things that will either directly (through new jobs, or even just keeping existing ones), or semi-directly benefit Ontarians is worthwhile sacrifice to make.

Like I said earlier, it's just too bad the Liberals didn't 'close the loop' on their transit proposal, specifically regarding GO REX. There's going to be the engineering and planning jobs created to design the system. There's going to be the construction jobs to build it. There's going to be the operations jobs to keep it going. The biggest thing that is missing from that plan is the manufacturing jobs: vehicle design and assembly in Oshawa and/or Windsor, materials from across the Province, etc. Sell that angle too, and I think the Liberals would have had a much more winning formula.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Opportunity cost. It's extremely clear the GTA economy is being held back by transportation issues.

If you believe, as entities like the Toronto Board of Trade tell us, that the GTA is losing 8Billion GDP per year then the cancellation of Network 2011 and other plans has cost the province tens of billions in revenue over the last 20 years.

I thought about that - but I would be hesitant to put a figure on the opportunity cost of not building that stump Eglinton line, and there was no Network 2011 even under the NDP either.

AoD

 

[rbt]

Nice analogy, though one that might hit closer to home is Walkerton and SARS. Jest aside, I have said, the financial conditions are more difficult now.

I moved from Hanover (30km from Walkerton) to downtown Toronto between those 2 events. That was a rough few years for mass panic.

 

[Solid Snake]

How much does a DRL study cost, engineering included? Let's be really over the top generous at a 100M - any government can pay for that.

AoD

I don't disagree with you. Politics is a lot about perception. Paying 100M$ is worth it if it makes the people confident that you're acting.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

The gas plants issue irks me, for sure, but I remember the 407. Just going to throw this kindling on the fire, but that particular squandering of funds overshadows any such waste under the Liberals.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I don't disagree with you. Politics is a lot about perception. Paying 100M$ is worth it if it makes the people confident that you're acting.

And you wonder why we never got anything built. Building transit requires real money, not 3Ps - plans, platitudes and pablum.

AoD

 

[rbt]

How much does a DRL study cost, engineering included? Let's be really over the top generous at a 100M - any government can pay for that.

Fully engineered? It'll be about 25% of the total cost. It includes a lot of work on the ground to confirm everything is where it should be, soil quality, setting up full supply chain availability, an approximate construction schedule (temporary structures need engineering too), etc.

A basic workup to complete an EA would be closer to your estimate.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

rbt:

Yeah, in 4 years, you can probably finish the EA and barely get to the start of the full process.

AoD

 

[BurlOak]

So do we know what date this election will land on?

The election is still not official. Either Wynne will now call an election since it is obvious that the current legislature cannot proceed, or we wait until the actual vote comes up on the budget.
Theoretically, Wynne could still propose some NDP friendly amendments to the budget and get it past. I am not really sure what more could have been done to appease the NDP, maybe just putting Horvath and a few NDPers in government so they could help keep an eye on the Liberals while the pro-left agenda is implemented.

 

[Solid Snake]

And you wonder why we never got anything built. Building transit requires real money, not 3Ps - plans, platitudes and pablum.

AoD

I agree, but you have to realize that the Liberals' plan of taxing more doesn't fly anymore for the population especially since all those financial scandals. After wasting all those billions and asking for more tax dollars is just crazy and shameful. People want accountability and will not accept being asked for more taxes if they can't trust their government to manage it properly. As much as people doubt the PC's ability to fully commit on transit projects, people doubt the Liberals' financial competence even more which is worst.

The Liberals were so incompetent that it gave a guy like Hudak a chance to win. That includes me, I'd rather give him a try than watch the Liberals damaging the economy even more.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

I agree, but you have to realize that the Liberals' plan of taxing more doesn't fly anymore for the population especially since all those financial scandals. After wasting all those billions and asking for more tax dollars is just crazy and shameful. People want accountability and will not accept being asked for more taxes if they can't trust their government to manage it properly. As much as people doubt the PC's ability to fully commit on transit projects, people doubt the Liberals' financial competence even more which is worst.

The Liberals were so incompetent that it gave a guy like Hudak a chance to win. That includes me, I'd rather to give him a try than watch the Liberals damaging the economy even more.

You trust the financial sense of Ontario's Tea Party, whose track record includes the debacle that was the 407 sale, over the Wynne government?

I hear the term incompetence thrown around a lot with regards to the Liberals, but one thing that the people of this province have is short memories. I wasn't even old enough to vote during the Harris days but even I remember enough that I'll never vote for the party of privatization and cuts.

 

[sixrings]

I agree, but you have to realize that the Liberals' plan of taxing more doesn't fly anymore for the population especially since all those financial scandals. After wasting all those billions and asking for more tax dollars is just crazy and shameful. People want accountability and will not accept being asked for more taxes if they can't trust their government to manage it properly. As much as people doubt the PC's ability to fully commit on transit projects, people doubt the Liberals' financial competence even more which is worst.

The Liberals were so incompetent that it gave a guy like Hudak a chance to win. That includes me, I'd rather give him a try than watch the Liberals damaging the economy even more.

Mike Duffy Nuff Said

 

[Solid Snake]

You trust the financial sense of Ontario's Tea Party, whose track record includes the debacle that was the 407 sale, over the Wynne government?

I hear the term incompetence thrown around a lot with regards to the Liberals, but one thing that the people of this province have is short memories. I wasn't even old enough to vote during the Harris days but even I remember enough that I'll never vote for the party of privatization and cuts.

Ontario has become a "have not" province under the Liberals, not the PC