[BobbyS]

Not gonna lie it is funny watching decided voters argue with one another like it is going to change an opinion.

 

[typezed]

Then why does Spain have one of the worse unemployment rates in Europe? I'm not making this up and I'm asking you the question.

I don't know. Spain really isn't on my radar that often. Seems to me that they've long had struggles. I find it difficult to believe they have a poor employment rate solely because they built some subway lines. We have things to be done, and we have surplus people we should be able to train and employ to do them. The problem is how to pay for it. Seems to me that dedicating people to improve infrastructure like transit should be a greater net gain for all of us than financial manipulation, property flipping and building the next Angry Birds.

So it's like that for me with Hudak. If he's certain that there are 100,000 jobs in the public sector that aren't worth doing, what are the 1,000,000 jobs that are worth doing?

(or 1,000,000/8)

 

[nfitz]

He was leader of the opposition. His job is to say "no" to everything.

That's not the job of the leader of the opposition. He didn't push for the closure of the Ashbridge's Bay powerplant. Why not? Because Hudak was also playing politics, and thinking about gaining seats.

When the police are investigating, you know someone went too far

The police have said they are not investigating McGuinty. The investigations seem to centre a former staffer. No indications that any politicians were involved.

 

[salsa]

Then why does Spain have one of the worse unemployment rates in Europe? I'm not making this up and I'm asking you the question.

Why don't you answer that question? Prove your point.

 

[Solid Snake]

You're conveniently ignoring that Harris was in power during boom years while the Liberals were in power during a global economic meltdown. And that for the 3 years or so before the meltdown, the Liberals had surpluses.

You're conveniently ignoring that those surplus we're mostly due to McGuinty drastically increasing taxes when he had promised not too. It's the easiest thing to do. Quebec has mastered the art of increasing taxes as the most taxed province/state in North America. Once your population gets overtaxed and can't give you anymore, this is where the problems starts. Trying to impose more taxes and increasing government rates on an already overtaxed population will make you heavily unpopular and then you'll find sneaky ways to do it. Then when that's done, you condition the population that deficits and debts are not the end of the world when we compare ourselves. Do we have to repeat what was done next door?

It's a perfect of what Margaret Thatcher was saying :

The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money to spend

By the way, I don't remember Moody's downgrading Ontario under Harris. They didn't even downgraded Quebec during the recession but they did with McGuinty in charge...

 

[nfitz]

As for the TTC, woudln't uploading the subway to Metrolinx drastically lower their operating costs?

Hard to say ... it drastically lowers their revenue too. And would be a nightmare to figure out who get's what share of the $2 revenue they average per ride. I'm relatively neutral on uploading ... though I see many issues ... such as transfers ... you'd need to put faregates at most stations, to at least track who is changing to vehicles of another agency.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

You do realize that the liberal more than doubled the debt, right? Yes, the debt increased under Harris but you're conveniently leaving out the government before him in the equation.

Okay.

And I hope you do realize that Ontario's net debt growth basically plateaued between 2002 and 2007 and our debt to GDP ratio was decreasing. It wasn't until the Global Financial Crisis of 2007/2008 that Ontario's debt spiked.

Short of blaming the global financial crisis on McGuinty, I don't see how anyone could reasonably assign blame to the Liberal government for that increase in debt. The same thing would have happened under any other government

Now if the debt/GDP continues to rise, then we have a problem.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

And to add to that, I believe the Liberals had been reducing corporate income tax pretty consistently - and one has to realize that the main issue in Ontario is the erosion of the industry sector due to the high dollar.

AoD

 

[nfitz]

You're conveniently ignoring that those surplus we're mostly due to McGuinty drastically increasing taxes when he had promised not too.

What? There were no drastic tax increases under McGuinty. I can't think of any other than very early Ontario Health tax when there was still a $5 billion deficit after the Harris cuts ... and perhaps the PST/HST change, though that was revenue neutral, so it didn't contribute to surpluses. At the same time, McGuinty made significant cuts to corporate taxes (a bit too far I think). I don't see much increased revenue from McGuinty under taxation.

By the way, I don't remember Moody's downgrading Ontario under Harris. They didn't even downgraded Quebec during the recession but they did with McGuinty in charge...

McGuinty should resign then. Oh wait, he did ...

Moody's has Quebec rated the same as Ontario. AA2. However both DBRS and Standard & Poors both still rate Ontario higher than Quebec.

Surely your comment about Moody not downgrading Ontario under Harris is disingenuous. Ontario was AA3 when Harris left office. It was upgraded to AA2 after he left office, then to AA1 in 2007, and then downgraded back to AA2.

But we are wandering. This discussion is primarily about transit. Given the Tories history of cutting transit severely under Mike Harris, and Hudak's discussion of his desire to emulate Harris, and to cut transit (both operational funding and capital funding for expansion), how can anyone seriously be discussing voting PC HERE?

 

[nfitz]

You're right. Everything is great in Spain and the world's greatest economist are all morons next to you

I don't see any reason to be rude ...

The situation in Spain is horrible. I'm merely pointing out that your trying to link the high unemployment rate in Spain with construction of subways and infrastructure, may not only be flawed - but a quick look at the employment rates shows that they are lower where more infrastructure has been constructed.

I'm not, nor have I ever presented myself as an Economist. However YOUR the one who made the link, and your the one who mentioned Spain. So where is something to back this up? Or heck, anything to back this up?

 

[Solid Snake]

Why don't you answer that question? Prove your point.

There's a lot of reasons why Spain is the way it is so I'll summarize it the best I can. Since 2008, businesses have been leaving Spain and its strict labour laws has made the country highly unattractive for new investors after the crisis of 2008. Spain also had a serious housing crisis. At the beginning of the years 2000, Spain growth relied heavily on it's construction sector and massive infrastructure investments. Then 2008 happened and the real estate market collapsed by almost 25% and there were over half a million houses that couldn't be sold. Spain had overbuilt and the country was hit by mass unemployment with a rate of 25% since the construction sector accounted for almost 10% of all the jobs in the country. Unemployment and the housing crisis have led to a banking crisis since those banks were dealing with an increasing number of people who couldn't pay their mortgages. In total, the "risk assets" in real estate accounted for just over half of their investments in that sector which collapsed.

Due to all those factors and the fact that Spain couldn't rely on what stimulated the growth at the beginning of the century, Spain lost control of their deficits and debt which increased at a staggering rate. As this wasn't enough, they had to bail out parts of the country who were in a catastrophic financial situation. In turn, their credit rating was lowered making their financial situation much worst. Now, it's austerity time in Spain

 

[Solid Snake]

I don't see any reason to be rude ...

The situation in Spain is horrible. I'm merely pointing out that your trying to link the high unemployment rate in Spain with construction of subways and infrastructure, may not only be flawed - but a quick look at the employment rates shows that they are lower where more infrastructure has been constructed.

I'm not, nor have I ever presented myself as an Economist. However YOUR the one who made the link, and your the one who mentioned Spain. So where is something to back this up? Or heck, anything to back this up?

My apologies. I should not have been rude. Ontario is not Spain but we're on track to be a Quebec run by the PQ.

 

[Solid Snake]

But we are wandering. This discussion is primarily about transit. Given the Tories history of cutting transit severely under Mike Harris, and Hudak's discussion of his desire to emulate Harris, and to cut transit (both operational funding and capital funding for expansion), how can anyone seriously be discussing voting PC HERE?

If the election was purely on Transit, you'd be right. But the #1 priority for Ontarians is Economy and Jobs and on that front, The Liberals can't be taken seriously

 

[nfitz]

Ontario is not Spain but we're on track to be a Quebec run by the PQ.

$7 a day childcare, free dental care for children, $79.50 a month transit pass, and not eligible to receive federal transfer payments? I must have missed who was promising that ...

 

[nfitz]

If the election was purely on Transit, you'd be right. But the #1 priority for Ontarians is Economy and Jobs and on that front, The Liberals can't be taken seriously

Number 1 issue is transit. GTA is gridlocked, and getting worse. We need to do something now, while we still have an economy and jobs to go to.

But ... hang on. Hudak on jobs? Is this a parody?