[innsertnamehere]

At this point the YSNE is only a year or so in front of the DRL.

And no, the Yonge line cannot support the YNSE in it's current form. I would almost argue that the DRL needs to go to Eglinton first. You are mad to suggest otherwise. Yonge North can stick with buses for a few more years.

 

[micheal_can]

At this point the YSNE is only a year or so in front of the DRL.

And no, the Yonge line cannot support the YNSE in it's current form. I would almost argue that the DRL needs to go to Eglinton first. You are mad to suggest otherwise. Yonge North can stick with buses for a few more years.

That is likely more than a decade away. Unless they build the DRL in one go.

 

[nfitz]

I've said it before but my "dream" is to move on the YNSE and have the DRL rolling so it opens within a year or two of YNSE. I don't think a ready-to-go subway should have to wait and I don't think there will be enough new ridership in the short-term to make things worse on Line 1.

The experts disagree though.

Given how things often fail to happen, Toronto and TTC would be fools to start on a Yonge extension before shovels are in the ground on at least the first leg of the DRL

 

[TheTigerMaster]

The experts disagree though.

Given how things often fail to happen, Toronto and TTC would be fools to start on a Yonge extension before shovels are in the ground on at least the first leg of the DRL

Yes. Looking at the latest Yonge Line ridership projections, it's expected that latent demand will absorb all of the new capacity that will be available on Yonge once ATO comes online in 2019. Even with ATO, Yonge will be around 8% over capacity in 2031.

And this projection assumes that ATO is able to reliably provide headways that allow for 36,000 pphpd. A lot of very smart people seem to doubt that ATO can successfully do that.

 

[Leo_Chan]

So did this thread just become the which should be built first thread, and the original thread will be the news and interesting details thread?

Not a bad coincidence of events.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Yes. Looking at the latest Yonge Line ridership projections, it's expected that latent demand will absorb all of the new capacity that will be available on Yonge once ATO comes online in 2019. Even with ATO, Yonge will be around 8% over capacity in 2031.

And this projection assumes that ATO is able to reliably provide headways that allow for 36,000 pphpd. A lot of very smart people seem to doubt that ATO can successfully do that.

By the way, a lot of people remain unaware that even with the Relief Line South, the Yonge Line is expected to remain at/over capacity in 2031 (see RL corridor# B2 in the table). And as I said in my previous post, this assumes that the Yonge Line will have a capacity of 36,000 pphpd, which is doubtful. If we are working to maintain network integrity, the YNSE really would't move forward until the DRL is built to at least Eglinton.

Personally, I'd be alright with the YNSE moving forward, under the condition that it opens concurrently with the Relief Line South, and under the condition that the Relief Line's Sheppard extension opens no more than a few of years later. Any other schedule would leave the Yonge Line severely and permanently overcrowded, which is unacceptable.

 

[micheal_can]

So did this thread just become the which should be built first thread, and the original thread will be the news and interesting details thread?

Not a bad coincidence of events.

As the OP. I can rename it. Should it be renamed, again? To What?

 

[innsertnamehere]

By the way, a lot of people remain unaware that even with the Relief Line South, the Yonge Line is expected to remain at/over capacity in 2031 (see RL corridor# B2 in the table). And as I said in my previous post, this assumes that the Yonge Line will have a capacity of 36,000 pphpd, which is doubtful. If we are working to maintain network integrity, the YNSE really would't move forward until the DRL is built to at least Eglinton.

Personally, I'd be alright with the YNSE moving forward, under the condition that it opens concurrently with the Relief Line South, and under the condition that the Relief Line's Sheppard extension opens no more than a few of years later. Any other schedule would leave the Yonge Line severely and permanently overcrowded, which is unacceptable.

View attachment 133147

This is the data that I remembered. The reality is that the Yonge line is already pulling into Bloor-Yonge overloaded, and the DRL south will do nothing to prevent that. You need it going to Eglinton, or better yet, Sheppard, to relieve that.

Toronto desperately needs the DRL from Dundas West to Sheppard. Unfortunately that is a 25km, ~$13 billion endeavor. That needs to happen yesterday.

 

[micheal_can]

This is the data that I remembered. The reality is that the Yonge line is already pulling into Bloor-Yonge overloaded, and the DRL south will do nothing to prevent that. You need it going to Eglinton, or better yet, Sheppard, to relieve that.

Toronto desperately needs the DRL from Dundas West to Sheppard. Unfortunately that is a 25km, ~$13 billion endeavor. That needs to happen yesterday.

And how many years to build it?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

And how many years to build it?

Relief Line Short is at least 10 years away. Assuming that we've got all our ducks in a row (prompt funding!!!!), around 20 years for full buildout seems reasonable.

Hopefully the Relief Line North starts construction not too long after the Relief Line South. Detailed planning work for Relief Line North should be beginning this year, roughly after the completion of the TPAP for the Relief Line South, but I have no idea how delayed (if at all) that plan was. Relief Line South TPAP was supposed to begin late last year, but we've gotten no update to indicate that it is yet underway. The TPAP should be completed six months after it is started

 

[BMO]

And how many years to build it?

Likely 8-10 years...unfortunately. I'm personally holding out hope for autonomous vehicles to save us.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Likely 8-10 years...unfortunately. I'm personally holding out hope for autonomous vehicles to save us.

Pretty sure they were asking about the time to build out the DRL from Dundas West to Sheppard East. No way that happens in 8 to 10 years.

 

[micheal_can]

Pretty sure they were asking about the time to build out the DRL from Dundas West to Sheppard East. No way that happens in 8 to 10 years.

I was

 

[narduch]

My prediction is the DRL short is completed in about 20 years.

Government will try to put it off as long as they can.

 

[nfitz]

By the way, a lot of people remain unaware that even with the Relief Line South, the Yonge Line is expected to remain at/over capacity in 2031 (see RL corridor# B2 in the table).

And some think they may have underestimated the latent demand on Yonge.

I think reality is, that by that point, we are going to need a second Yonge Line. Though we've talked about this before. Presumably some kind of express. I'd suggest down Bay, with stops at Queens Quay (which solves Union-Queens Quay link issue - but make it deep enough to go under the Lake, to either the Islands or the Portlands), Union, Queen, Bloor, then St. Clair (sliding over from Bloor to Yonge Street) not sure how far you take it; you could enter Davisville and have a combined station for easy transfer, and then take off up Duplex for a final station at Eglinton - for now. (you could even swap, and take this new Express Bay subway up the existing Yonge alignment, and terminate the original Yonge subway at Eglinton.

As the OP. I can rename it. Should it be renamed, again? To What?

Should be one thread.

Relief Line Short is at least 10 years away. Assuming that we've got all our ducks in a row (prompt funding!!!!), around 20 years for full buildout seems reasonable.

Given TTC is currently putting it in the 10-15, this almost sounds very optimistic!

Detailed planning work for North should be beginning this year, roughly after the completion of the TPAP for South

They already completed the planning in 2015, and moved int the 15% design in 2016. It's much further advanced than the Relief line. See the project website. http://www.vivanext.com/project_YongeSubway

My prediction is the DRL short is completed in about 20 years. Government will try to put it off as long as they can.

Gosh, that still seem optimistic! But I think, necessary.