Megaton327
Senior Member
Something a bit odd in your chart--it seems to indicate that GO runs several trips from Kitchener that don't stop at Guelph? I'm not sure that's the case.
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Something a bit odd in your chart--it seems to indicate that GO runs several trips from Kitchener that don't stop at Guelph? I'm not sure that's the case.
nfitz
Superstar
It is the case though. If you look, the table includes bus runs from Kitchener, that run-stop to trains in Bramalea. And bus runs from Guelph that run with 5 stops to trains in Mount Pleasant. There are indeed runs that there is a bus from Kitchener, and no bus from Guelph. There's also cases where the bus has to leave Guelph before the bus leaves Kitchener to match the same train.
Also the schedule has changed since then. See current schedule at http://www.gotransit.com/timetables/en/PDF/Timetables/06170917/Table31.pdf
reaperexpress
Senior Member
I included the Route 30 Kitchener Express trips because they are just as fast as direct trains, but I didn't include any of the Route 33 Guelph local buses because they are horrendously slow. If GO still operated the Route 39 Guelph Express, it would be on here.
According to that schedule, my chart is up to date as far as I can tell.
My "AM Peak" peak period was 6:00-10:00 arrivals, and the "PM Peak" was 15:00 to 19:00 departures, though I was a bit lenient with VIA where there were fewer trips to choose from.
micheal_can
Senior Member
Why Stratford? London would seem better since it is a major city and could take advantage of those going to points beyond Toronto.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
The London-Kitchener-Toronto line is very slow, so a full-length trip would have to leave London so early that it would be unattractive. The 8:30AM arrival in Toronto would need to leave Stratford at about 6:20, and leave London at 5:10. Why would anyone take a train that early when there's already a trip from London to Toronto (via Brantford) which departs London at 6:25 and arrives in Toronto at 8:35?
The same thing is true in the afternoon. There are already departures to London at 16:35 and 17:30 which take 2h10, so it would make no sense travel on the proposed 16:30 departure via Stratford which would take 3h20, getting you to London later than either of those other trains.
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steveintoronto
Superstar
The 33 bus is torture after getting off the train at Mt Pleasant to get to Guelph. A serious disincentive, the 29 is much faster, but getting to Square One from the west end of Toronto is also a massive disincentive. It means taking TTC, then Mi-Way, then GO, or going backwards from the west-end to Union, to take the insufferable 24 to Square One, and then the 29. GO don't make it easy by any means.
But the 39 was bliss! It *moved* to get to Mt Pleasant. And the reason it was dropped? Hardly anyone used it! I've been on it at times when I was the only passenger (evening run) and other times on the last morning one, one of two. I can't blame GO for dropping the route, but on the other hand, hardly anyone knew of its existence. It had been running for a year before I became aware of it, and that was only because the number was listed on stops (39), and at first I thought it must be a variant of the 29 route. It was only delving on the GO website to find out what it did that I realized.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
The 30 Kitchener Express was pretty lightly used in those days as well, there were times that I was one of only two or three passengers on the bus. But they kept that route running and ridership has picked up quite a bit since, as more people discovered the route. Now they're facing the same challenge with the new hourly off-peak service on Route 30, which is still fairly lightly used. But again, ridership should pick up as people discover that it's a pretty good alternative to Greyhound even outside of rush hour (similar price, similar frequency, slightly slower on paper but much more reliable in practice).
And to add to your description of local buses as torture, I literally had a nightmare about the 25 Square One-Waterloo local bus. I dreamt that I got on a route 25 bus at Square One thinking it was express, but then once the bus departed the LCD screen started listing all the local stops. I started getting frustrated about being stuck on that bus for two hours, but fortunately I soon woke up and discovered that I was in my bed, rather than on the route 25 local bus.
steveintoronto
Superstar
It underlines the absurdity of all the talk of "High Speed Rail" when all most of us want is just all day service at a regular speed the entire distance on train, Toronto to Guelph/K-W, or an express bus in lieu of that. Since I travel with a bike most times, I much prefer train, and prefer trains anyway, the sense of actually moving at a decent rate to get there is (usually) inherent.
One has to wonder if there's some fault in GO's PR that the express buses, an incredibly simple and inexpensive way to provide service, is at fault? I would have thought the 30 bus well-used.
If the PR isn't at fault, then it bodes poorly for the case of all-day trains. Maybe the demand just isn't there, contrary to constant claims?
Greyhound have had to slash the number of routes to both Guelph and K-W due to low ridership on many mid-day routes.