[steveintoronto]

This election was a mastery of manipulation.

And nothing indicates that as clearly as Elliot's loss to Ford. The fix was already in.

 

[TrickyRicky]

Ford got lucky that's for sure but sorry guys I still don't think the message is getting through. Ford was not a fluke his support is real. His support is not just stupid people. He is not alone. The root of the issue has nothing to do with Ford himself or individual specific mistakes made by the NDP or Liberals. We can all wish he would go away but he is more likely to be emulated than disappear.

The insults and jokes about Ford are funny but I think they mask the deeper unease people feel that Conservative populists have some valid philosophical points not well articulated by themselves and somehow incomprehensible to many left-wing supporters and pundits.

 

[zang]

The insults and jokes about Ford are funny but I think they mask the deeper unease people feel that Conservative populists have some valid philosophical points not well articulated by themselves and somehow incomprehensible to many left-wing supporters and pundits.

Okay, please tell me how the Sex Ed Curriculum plays into this? It was a big issue for Ford, and part of the reason many backed him.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4424744/ontario-sex-ed-curriculum-ipsos-poll/

“Parents are clearly divided on the issue of repeal of the 2015 sex-ed curriculum. You’ve got half (51 per cent) who support the premier’s decision to repeal it and you’ve got half who are opposed,” Sean Simpson, vice president of Ipsos Public Affairs, told Global News.

When Ipsos asked the parents about provisions in the 2015 curriculum, support for different concepts being taught between Grades 1 and 8 was strong. For example, the highest level of support — 84 per cent — from parents surveyed dealt with the question of teaching Grade 7 students about sexually-transmitted diseases, oral and anal sex, and the risks of ‘sexting.’ The question which received the lowest level of support — 68 per cent — involved Grade 6 students being taught about masturbation, gender expression, and consent.

That means, of the questions about the 2015 curriculum used in the poll, approval ranged between 68-84% amongst everyone (including the 51% who supported the repeal).

Does this seem like educated people who care about valid philosophical points that the Conservatives were able to tap into? Or does this come across more as "punishment" of the Liberals and sheer ignorant tribalism?

 

[Northern Light]

Furthermore, the marginalized working poor often have an emotional reaction to policy that lifts-up-all boats but only does so for some. It's not a mature behaviour (because caring about fairness is probably the least mature emotion known to man) but basically if the state lifts up your neighbour and not you or worse lifts up some dude you think is worthless while you work your ass off and still end up no better off. Dude, your going to be pissed.

On the portion I've quoted, I think you have a point.

There is a segment of the population who are just getting by, and doing so without inordinate state support (that is to say only those programs like public education/health/roads etc. that most of us benefit from), who very much resent government actions that help anyone worse off still get up to their level without any additional effort.

That that view is selfish, narrow-minded, and myopic should also be said.

On the rest, I'm not sure argument holds as much water.

Though I might repurpose some of it.

The mistake of centre/left in politics that is distinct from the mistakes of the right (both make ample substantive policy errors) is the failure to understand simplicity.

By which I mean two things. In substance, government actions needs to be transparent wherever possible, such that tangible achievement is measurable to the average person.

That doesn't mean fixing hallway medicine gets any simpler, but it means that success, from the pov of the average person is their 'feeling' about their experience waiting for a doctor's appointment, a surgery or in the ER.

The average person does not read the wait time metric charts at Health Quality Ontario that show how what the average wait and 90th percentile wait is patients based on priority levels 1 through 4.

I'm the policy wonk who reads that.

Where most patients are level 4 (least serious) there's is the experience most people know. You get very little credit for improvements at the other end of the spectrum because very few people are there.

That doesn't mean you should ignore the more serious patients, it means you should understand that to get broad credit for improvement, people in that level 4 category need to notice the change.


***

A second issue for the left is the death of a thousand cuts. By which I mean for individuals or businesses, one more form, one more line to stand in, or even one more line making your taxes longer.

The simple act of simplification is popular. Conversely, defending or expanding complexity causes many people, especially those with lower education, or less free time more anxiety as it adds to the challenge of daily life, often for what seems
like no reason at all.

This is where cancelling Drive Clean comes in; or Beer in corner stores.

When even environmentalists (myself included) know that Drive Clean as it now exists is pretty indefensible and where most people have accepted that chaos will not break out if Sobeys sells beer you can't be caught
defending arrangements that essentially support narrow interests (foreign conglomerates that own the Beer Store, mechanics) at the expense of the 'average' person in time or money.

Needless to say, none of that made me cast a vote for Ford (I did not), however, it did impact, at least as the margins, some other voters. That and the relative strength of two progressive parties, in a regressive electoral system gave us this result.

But bad politicing doesn't help.

 

[Thinker]

Ford got lucky that's for sure but sorry guys I still don't think the message is getting through. Ford was not a fluke his support is real. His support is not just stupid people. He is not alone. The root of the issue has nothing to do with Ford himself or individual specific mistakes made by the NDP or Liberals. We can all wish he would go away but he is more likely to be emulated than disappear.

The insults and jokes about Ford are funny but I think they mask the deeper unease people feel that Conservative populists have some valid philosophical points not well articulated by themselves and somehow incomprehensible to many left-wing supporters and pundits.

Ford was a carefully orchestrated play of political deception. I know several people who voted conservative and they were fully aware of what was going on, thus they voted conservative because they had been doing so for years and blinded by the hatred for the centre and left. THUS it makes them stupid voting for a leader whom they knew was a bully and sketchy to say the least. These are the same people who enjoyed the perks of being a employed and protected by the perks of a union but claim to be anti union because they have to pay dues. These are also the same "folks" who defended brother Rob and denied along with Doug his problems with drug and alcohol abuse. Conservatives approve of "saving money" and cutting services as long as it doesn't affect them. The hell with the rest of us who might be affected!

 

[gabe]

What happened to separation of church & state? Changing our country’s laws to make exceptions for different religions is a slippery slope. What if Christians don’t have to wear seatbelts because it interferes with the cross around their neck? dictator Doug will do anything get the religious zealots vote.

Experts raise concerns about Sikh motorcycle helmet exemption

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-sikh-motorcycle-helmet-exemption-1.4817828

 

[Thinker]

What happened to separation of church & state? Changing our country’s laws to make exceptions for different religions is a slippery slope. What if Christians don’t have to wear seatbelts because it interferes with the cross around their neck? dictator Doug will do anything get the religious zealots vote.

Experts raise concerns about Sikh motorcycle helmet exemption

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-sikh-motorcycle-helmet-exemption-1.4817828

Helmet laws are laws, Sikh motor cycle community are aware of the risk they take by not wearing a helmet and had stated earlier that they are willing to accept the risks and financial consequences when getting injured in an accident. They have now been exempted and I am sure anyone who thinks they want to be exempted from seatbelt or helmet laws can do so and I am sure if they are willing to accept the financial consequences due to the fact their religion forbids them to wear safety gear..... let them. Which includes hospitalization, physio, etc.. etc.. cause ya know the lord will protect and provide!

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Helmet laws are laws, Sikh motor cycle community are aware of the risk they take by not wearing a helmet and had stated earlier that they are willing to accept the risks and financial consequences when getting injured in an accident. They have now been exempted and I am sure anyone who thinks they want to be exempted from seatbelt or helmet laws can do so and I am sure if they are willing to accept the financial consequences due to the fact their religion forbids them to wear safety gear..... let them. Which includes hospitalization, physio, etc.. etc.. cause ya know the lord will protect and provide!

Hospitalization costs are borne by taxpayers. Ditto social welfare.

AoD

 

[W. K. Lis]

Doug Ford repeats vow to end ‘hallway health care’

From link.

See video at this link.

Premier Doug Ford used the ceremonial groundbreaking for a new $1.2-billion rehab hospital in Toronto to repeat his election promise that “hallway health care is coming to an end in this province.”

The vow came Thursday morning at West Park Healthcare Centre, overlooking the Humber River valley near Jane and Eglinton, where planning and development of a new main building began almost a decade ago under the previous Liberal government.

Taking credit for a development that started under the previous administration.

 

[Thinker]

Hospitalization costs are borne by taxpayers. Ditto social welfare.

AoD

Then insert in the same law of exception: You shall be responsible for medical costs when injured operating a motor vehicle without seat belt or helmet due to religious believes or negligence. Refusing to extend them welfare would be barbaric.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Then insert in the same law of exception: You shall be responsible for medical costs when injured operating a motor vehicle without seat belt or helmet due to religious believes or negligence. Refusing to extend them welfare would be barbaric.

That's probably even more controversial and ethically questionable than mandatory helmet use. We don't withhold needed medical services just because of particulars of behaviour - starting now would be a dangerous route to take.

AoD

 

[Hopkins123]

What happened to separation of church & state? Changing our country’s laws to make exceptions for different religions is a slippery slope. What if Christians don’t have to wear seatbelts because it interferes with the cross around their neck? dictator Doug will do anything get the religious zealots vote.

Experts raise concerns about Sikh motorcycle helmet exemption

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-sikh-motorcycle-helmet-exemption-1.4817828

Sikh motorcycle helmet exemption is already legal in a third of the provinces (Manitoba, Alberta and British Columbia) plus in London, UK.

Doug's just keeping up with the times. He should also re-legalize tobacco shisha while he's at it.

 

[gabe]

Sikh motorcycle helmet exemption is already legal in a third of the provinces (Manitoba, Alberta and British Columbia) plus in London, UK.

And in 28 American States riders over 20 legally don't have to wear helmets. Should we keep up with the times and scrap helmet laws for Sikh's and everyone else? No. Helmet laws exist for a reason.

 

[steveintoronto]

Ford got lucky that's for sure but sorry guys I still don't think the message is getting through. Ford was not a fluke his support is real. His support is not just stupid people. He is not alone. The root of the issue has nothing to do with Ford himself or individual specific mistakes made by the NDP or Liberals. We can all wish he would go away but he is more likely to be emulated than disappear.

The insults and jokes about Ford are funny but I think they mask the deeper unease people feel that Conservative populists have some valid philosophical points not well articulated by themselves and somehow incomprehensible to many left-wing supporters and pundits.

Sorry, but the only votes I've ever cast in this nation were for Conservatives. Real ones. And my father was an elected Conservative in the UK. A real one. With a social consciousness.

To think it's only "left wingers" who find Ford and his shenanigans putrid is to misjudge the term Conservative.

 

[steveintoronto]

That's probably even more controversial and ethically questionable than mandatory helmet use. We don't withhold needed medical services just because of particulars of behaviour - starting now would be a dangerous route to take.

AoD

Not to mention that almost every statistical analysis made on the subject indicates that far more pedestrians and car drivers would be saved by wearing helmets than motorcyclists.