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nfitz said:
I was having problems understanding your original post. In particular I'm not sure what the text you quoted was ... doesn't link anywhere. But partially I was numbed by ssiguy2's mind-numbing essays.

Re-reading it now, I'm not sure if your suggesting that these stations be added (like Stouffville) or should get 30-minute service (like Guelph). Certainly Stouffville should probably get a train ... but the densities out here are pretty low really, compared to what you get along the Lakeshore lines, and in Mississauga, Brampton, etc. And it's a long way from Georgetown to Guelph. Are there really the densities west of Brampton to support an all-day service? Georgetown is so small it doesn't even have local transit! And Acton is so small that you can walk anywhere in town.

Can't speak to Gormley or Bradford ... not that familiar with the areas ...
Click to expand...

I think denfromoakvillemilton was quoting this http://www.bigmove.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/TBM_NextWaveProject-GO-Rail-Service-Expansion.pdf
and taking the proposed all day services and suggesting that for each line the length of the all day services be extended further out.
 
nfitz said:
I was having problems understanding your original post. In particular I'm not sure what the text you quoted was ... doesn't link anywhere. But partially I was numbed by ssiguy2's mind-numbing essays.

Re-reading it now, I'm not sure if your suggesting that these stations be added (like Stouffville) or should get 30-minute service (like Guelph). Certainly Stouffville should probably get a train ... but the densities out here are pretty low really, compared to what you get along the Lakeshore lines, and in Mississauga, Brampton, etc. And it's a long way from Georgetown to Guelph. Are there really the densities west of Brampton to support an all-day service? Georgetown is so small it doesn't even have local transit! And Acton is so small that you can walk anywhere in town.

Can't speak to Gormley or Bradford ... not that familiar with the areas ...
Click to expand...

It seems to me like most of the 'short turn' spots chosen have a lot to do with space to build sidings and potentially storage facilities. Mt. Pleasant and Mt. Joy specifically are right on the edge of the urban periphery, so building something immediately beyond them would be much easier than if the service ended at Brampton or Markham GOs.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
  • Gormley Station on the Richmond Hill GO Line - Get the new users to the new station now. But you can't have that and the yonge subway line. Choose One.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

I know you're spitballing, but there's no way anyone in York Region would choose a Gormley GO station in the farmfields of 19th and Stouffville Road over a subway line to a part of York Region where people actually live.

Trains on the Richmond Hill GO line run in the peak direction for part of the day. They don't connect to anything useful in the GTA other than Union station. Until they run all day in both directions, a subway extension will be universally more popular than a slightly longer GO line.

Also, there's a rather large difference in price tags. I can't imagine the initial extension to Gormley costing more than $0.1 billion. If I had the choice between someone else spending a lot of money on me, or a little money on me, I'd always choose someone else spending a lot of money for my benefit.
 
This is how a REAL city builds rapid transit...... evergreenline.gov.bc.ca

Note how construction has just started on this 11km line but will be donw by summer 2015 and Vancouver has a habit of actually building their lines AHEAD of schedule. It would take Toronto 3 years to do the environmental assessment.

Also note how the province is chipping in $563 mil while the feds and Translink {people of Metro} $400 million each. Toronto could ask for funds from the feds but it was offered $300 million 4 years ago and hasn't got around to spending any of it. Note the line includes 6 stations, total grade separation, use of rail corridor {heresy in Toronto} and a one km tunnel. It will have capacity twice that of Eglinton, be much faster, more reliable, cheaper to operate, and cost one-quarter the price of Eglinton and half the price of the smaller Spadina ext at half the price and take half as long to build.

Somehow it's going to take Toronto more money and the same amount of time to convert a little 6km SRT to "affordable" LRT.

Vancouver also benefitting from a coordinated transit and transportation system means that the ticket you buy for your Evergreen Line will enable you to deduct that price 100% from your commuter rail ticket as the line will have 2 stations connecting to the WCE. Again, something foreign to the TTC and GO.
 
leopetr said:
I know you're spitballing, but there's no way anyone in York Region would choose a Gormley GO station in the farmfields of 19th and Stouffville Road over a subway line to a part of York Region where people actually live.

Trains on the Richmond Hill GO line run in the peak direction for part of the day. They don't connect to anything useful in the GTA other than Union station. Until they run all day in both directions, a subway extension will be universally more popular than a slightly longer GO line.

Also, there's a rather large difference in price tags. I can't imagine the initial extension to Gormley costing more than $0.1 billion. If I had the choice between someone else spending a lot of money on me, or a little money on me, I'd always choose someone else spending a lot of money for my benefit.
Click to expand...

Maybe you missed the earlier post that lead to the discussion but extending 7 day a week two way service is what we are discussing here.
 
leopetr said:
I know you're spitballing, but there's no way anyone in York Region would choose a Gormley GO station in the farmfields of 19th and Stouffville Road over a subway line to a part of York Region where people actually live.

Trains on the Richmond Hill GO line run in the peak direction for part of the day. They don't connect to anything useful in the GTA other than Union station. Until they run all day in both directions, a subway extension will be universally more popular than a slightly longer GO line.

Also, there's a rather large difference in price tags. I can't imagine the initial extension to Gormley costing more than $0.1 billion. If I had the choice between someone else spending a lot of money on me, or a little money on me, I'd always choose someone else spending a lot of money for my benefit.
Click to expand...


I'm talking about service extension for off peak during the day, where it should end. Not choosing a train station over the other subway line.
 
denfromoakvillemilton said:
Ok, I like what I see, and I would like to get closer to the :30 min LIRR/NJT/MNRR that the vaunted NYC has, but he's what I wanted
  • Guelph Station on the Georgetown GO line - Extending to just Mount Pleasant does nothing for the masses in North Halton. Calling the line Kitchener when it gets just 4 (future 6?) trains is confusing.
  • Bradford Station on the Barrie Line - Barrie is too far to have consistent service despite the fact go owns the line. Bradford brings in Simcoe and one more stop is not a lot to ask.
  • Gormley Station on the Richmond Hill GO Line - Get the new users to the new station now. But you can't have that and the yonge subway line. Choose One. Or give Mississauga the Sherway-Dundas extension of the Bloor Danforth as well.
  • Stouffville Station on the Stouffville GO Line - Come on, one more station, it's not that far, it's not asking a lot.

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

TOareaFan said:
Maybe you missed the earlier post that lead to the discussion but extending 7 day a week two way service is what we are discussing here.
Click to expand...

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is about where all day service should terminate, not how many stations should be built!
 
ssiguy2 said:
This is how a REAL city builds rapid transit...... evergreenline.gov.bc.ca

Note how construction has just started on this 11km line but will be donw by summer 2015 and Vancouver has a habit of actually building their lines AHEAD of schedule. It would take Toronto 3 years to do the environmental assessment.
Click to expand...

You can't possibly be talking about the same Evergreen line that was proposed in the early '90s, included as part of the Millennium line in the mid '90s, bumped to a phase two in the late '90s, cut in the early 2000s, bypassed as the next expansion priority when the provincial government was turfed, re-proposed as LRT in the mid-2000s, re-analyzed in 2007, re-proposed as SkyTrain in 2008, saw its funding re-cut by the mayors in 2009, got its EA started in 2009 by the province over local objections, ran through two years of EA while its future was uncertain, and is still seeing its station configuration in flux? That Evergreen line?
 
Platform 27 said:
You can't possibly be talking about the same Evergreen line that was proposed in the early '90s, included as part of the Millennium line in the mid '90s, bumped to a phase two in the late '90s, cut in the early 2000s, bypassed as the next expansion priority when the provincial government was turfed, re-proposed as LRT in the mid-2000s, re-analyzed in 2007, re-proposed as SkyTrain in 2008, saw its funding re-cut by the mayors in 2009, got its EA started in 2009 by the province over local objections, ran through two years of EA while its future was uncertain, and is still seeing its station configuration in flux? That Evergreen line?
Click to expand...
Clearly he's talking about a different Evergreen line, that will be built from conception to commissioning by faeries in less than 3 years. Of course if they'd have gone for monorail, they could have done it in 15 months, saved a mint, and had private business pay for it.
 
Upon rereading my post I made an error............the line will open in summer 2015 not 2015 as I stated.

Yes the Evergreen Line was going to be built by 2006 but it was put off due to Vancouver's Olympic bid which promised a rapid transit line to YVR so Evergreen was put off. It will take a total of 39 months to build the 11km line as opposed to the 6 years for Toronto's shorter Spadina extension which will also cost twice as much and three times as much on a per/km basis.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Might be relevant to the discussion. Polls show that if an election were held today, the Liberals would win. If this continues it means that a 2013 election is likely off the table.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/..._spells_out_todo_list_for_kathleen_wynne.html
Click to expand...
If the trend continues, would likely stop the opposition triggering an election. It's pretty neck-in-neck ... if the Liberals start to clearly pull ahead, I wouldn't be surprised if they call the election themselves. They always have that option ... and it would be easy to justify this year, as the new leader seeking a mandate from the people.
 
nfitz said:
If the trend continues, would likely stop the opposition triggering an election. It's pretty neck-in-neck ... if the Liberals start to clearly pull ahead, I wouldn't be surprised if they call the election themselves. They always have that option ... and it would be easy to justify this year, as the new leader seeking a mandate from the people.
Click to expand...

I think whether or not an election is called really depends on the NDP. Since Wynne is centre-left anyway, it'll be easier for her to 'cave to demands' from the NDP in return for propping her up. Until the polls show a realistic chance of the NDP forming government, I think we'll see the Liberals in power propped up by the NDP.
 
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