Urban Sky
Senior Member
Contrary to what @guavadelic wrote, no Corridor services will disappear, as they will simply switch operators.
Whatever is happening east of TRTO can also happen west of it, just a few years later…
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- Thread starter kEiThZ
- Start date
crs1026
Superstar
I see differences, because of the current and growing density through the GTA and westwards. East of the GTA, there is all sorts of low value real estate which offers any number of alternatives for a new build, as well as abandoned row's. Whereas Toronto-London is approaching a state of seamless urban development and/or prime farmland - so a route selection is more problemmatic and the sticker price will be huge. Really, we should be planning that leg now, fighting the political battles and assembling the land even if it makes more sense to build other parts first.
If the decision is to build along the existing freight lines, then an overall policy is needed on how that will be accomplished, with a direct path to a final design. (I am not suggesting that the freight railways give anything up.... just that the planning and design process has to be productive and can't be impeded by a railway ragging the puck out of disinterest or in hopes of leveraging a better deal). And even there, railway corridors are only so wide... if additional width is needed, buy it now. This is clearly a legislative thrust that has to come from Ottawa.
I am dubious that the time to Phase II will be only "a few years". There is a bigger inertia in municipal planning to overcome. Provincial policies and positions around land development and urban planning will be more central to this leg, and perhaps that argues for having Ontario run with the project.... if only to avoid the whole thing bogging down in a federal-provincial tussle.
- Paul
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guavadelic
New Member
The entire Quebec City-Toronto Corridor is being handed over to a private consortium to operate and maintain, thats more what my comment was directed towards. They seem to lessening their involvement in passenger rail.
urbancog
Active Member
The Federal Government's thought process seems to have been:
Neither Via Rail nor our civil service has the expertise to plan, design, build. and operate a high frequency intercity railway so we'll need to bring in expertise from places that already have these skills.
We need to provide an incentive to attract this expertise, so we'll offer an opportunity to operate and maintain the railway over a long enough term that proponents can both make a profit and pay for the planning, design and construction of any new assets needed.
By creating a Via Rail branded crown corporation and having it contract with the new rail company we can continue to brand the new services as Via Rail services.
To be truly useful, there needs to be seamless ticketing between regular Via Rail and HFR Via Rail so a I can make a single booking for a journey from London, ON to Montreal, QC.
Hopefully the contractual arrangements will be more like the Contract for Service arrangement that now exists between the UK government and their Train Operating Companies than the previous Franchise Agreements that transferred more marketing, branding, and sales to the franchisee.
Neither Via Rail nor our civil service has the expertise to plan, design, build. and operate a high frequency intercity railway so we'll need to bring in expertise from places that already have these skills.
We need to provide an incentive to attract this expertise, so we'll offer an opportunity to operate and maintain the railway over a long enough term that proponents can both make a profit and pay for the planning, design and construction of any new assets needed.
By creating a Via Rail branded crown corporation and having it contract with the new rail company we can continue to brand the new services as Via Rail services.
To be truly useful, there needs to be seamless ticketing between regular Via Rail and HFR Via Rail so a I can make a single booking for a journey from London, ON to Montreal, QC.
Hopefully the contractual arrangements will be more like the Contract for Service arrangement that now exists between the UK government and their Train Operating Companies than the previous Franchise Agreements that transferred more marketing, branding, and sales to the franchisee.
nfitz
Superstar
The discussion was about west of Toronto - where the only expansion I've seen is provincial.
I've seen nothing but cuts of VIA service west of Toronto - and many broken promises and misleading statements about improving service west of Toronto. Is there anything about improving it in the HFR RFP? Is there a solid plan to improve it?
urbancog
Active Member
The only expansion I'm aware of is the proposed daily Amtrak service between Chicago, Detroit, Windsor, and Toronto.
The article suggests the plan is to utilize the southern route between London and Toronto, so Kitchener, Guelph, Georgetown and Brampton won't get return of the service that used to be provided by The International.
The article suggests the plan is to utilize the southern route between London and Toronto, so Kitchener, Guelph, Georgetown and Brampton won't get return of the service that used to be provided by The International.
nfitz
Superstar
Cutting The International was a service improvement for Sarnia and Kitchener to Brampton. The eastbound service through the border was too unreliable to rely on to provide a predictable service. Other than that it didn't really change much, as the train simply starts in Sarnia now than Chicago. (looking at the final configuration through Port Huron).
As such I don't think the Amtrak train adds much to VIA's southwest Ontario service.
roger1818
Senior Member
It is only 132 km from Union to Niagara Falls, which is very short for an inter-city service. Having GO take over the service and operate it as a regional rail service makes a lot of sense.
As for Sarnia, it is a 95 km branch from the main Toronto-London-Windsor route. With a CA population of under 100,000, it will be a much lower priority than the main route. Regardless, it would benefit from improved service between London and Toronto with HxR West.
micheal_can
Senior Member
6ixGod
New Member
I feel like GO was trying to become Ontario’s own VIA…the London expansion was an attempt as that.
But I think with Amtrak announcing the return of the Chicago-Detroit-Toronto train (at some point), GO just gave up on the idea.
But I think with Amtrak announcing the return of the Chicago-Detroit-Toronto train (at some point), GO just gave up on the idea.
just east of the creek
Active Member
Chicago to Detroit is really not regional rail , distances might be in the order of 450 km or so. And there is a significant population difference as well (GTA Chicago 9.6 M, GTA Detroit 4.4 M) to account for in the announcement that Amtrak made.
Niagara Falls, London, Barrie, Peterborough, Port Hope/Coburg could all be GO Regional Rail destinations. (And then you could end the charade of running any form of HSR through Sharbot Lake to Peterborough, and route it along the existing population bases of the VIA Lakeshore Line) But vast improvements to speed and capability would have to be made on all of the connecting rail lines to make GO Regional Rail work.
micheal_can
Senior Member
I feel that GO realized that with their current equipment, they cannot offer a good intercity service.. The London experiment was pointless. It arrived after 9am and left before 5 pm. Not really good for workers to use.
I feel that the return of the Northlander is Ontario's venture into intercity rail service. The train is more of what should be used for intercity travel. They did test a GO coach on the Polar Bear Express and found it unsuitable.
Was there talks of GO crossing an international border?
guavadelic
New Member
The Amtrak plan only entails having their trains stop at Windsor and then have passengers switch to VIA trains headed to Toronto. The frequency likely won't be more than a couple trains a day. That wouldn't be enough to discourage GO/Metrolinx if they were considering expanding in that direction.
micheal_can
Senior Member
If that is the case, it would just be a connection service and not serving the other places.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Now there's a can o' worms that hasn't been tapped in a while.