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TheTigerMaster said:
Wow! You mean to tell us a project in the earliest design stages only has very preliminary pricing estimates. Thanks, Toronto Sun, for the groundbreaking reporting.
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Its noteworthy (and worrisome) that Joe Cressy pushed not to discuss costs at all at the announcement press conference. It's true that early cost estimates are only that, estimates, but Cressy had no hesitation in criticizing the early cost estimates for the SSE. Both projects could be seriously huge investments that perhaps the city can't afford yet he picks and chooses what estimates to value or not.

It's also noteworthy to mention that Cressy has pretty much guaranteed that the private proposal for the same space will not be accepted (reference = his latest "Cressy Courier" available on this website). He should be held to account on that.
 
pstogios said:
It's also noteworthy to mention that Cressy has pretty much guaranteed that the private proposal for the same space will not be accepted (reference = his latest "Cressy Courier" available on this website). He should be held to account on that.
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In a legal forum (like the OMB, for instance), that kind of grandstanding actually works against the city. The proponent will allege bias and lack of due process. And they will be right.

I would hate to be the City's expert witness on the stand - the cross examination from the proponent's lawyer will be all along the lines of "you were ordered to oppose the project, and your professional opinion is tainted, right?"

Cressy is clearly willing to get this done, costs be damned. I am in favour of the park but this kind of thing is grossly irresponsible.

- Paul
 
pstogios said:
but Cressy had no hesitation in criticizing the early cost estimates for the SSE.
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This is very different from that for a whole bunch of reasons. I certainly take issue with Cressy's public stance on this (though I do think it's possible we're not giving him enough credit from a negotiating standpoint, but that's not really publicly knowable at this point in time), but I don't think that particular point is a fair one for criticism.
 
New images from Jen Pagliaro's Twitter, where she's live-tweeting the consultation:

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City unveils a proposed phasing, with the priority phase highlighted in green:

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And the City's admission that they don't own a whole bunch of the land:

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Should we be concerned about the abundance of private ownership (yellow) in the above map?

It's noteworthy that the City does own the air rights bordering the rail corridor. Makes it very difficult for anyone to acquire all the air rights.
 
eminent domain means the city can acquire it even if the seller is not in the mood to give it up. This process can take about a year however, so it can sometimes slow a project.
 
TheTigerMaster said:
Should we be concerned about the abundance of private ownership (yellow) in the above map?

It's noteworthy that the City does own the air rights bordering the rail corridor. Makes it very difficult for anyone to acquire all the air rights.
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This is a huge setback for the city. Realizing Rail Deck Park in full just became very difficult. Any political proponents of this have to convince the city that it's worthwhile to pass up a developer's offer to pay for a half version of this park, expropriate the rights at fair market value, and then construct the thing in entirety. That's a big ask politically, and a big price tag.

Would've been a different story if the air rights were still Metrolinx-owned, but here we are.
 
The owners of the air rights can be won over in one of two ways: a) by giving them money, or b) by giving them zoning concessions either on this land package or some other development proposal. I shudder at both options.

If the City pays money, what other planned civic expenditures will be removed from the table? TTC capital budget, just released, already has $2B in unfunded items. The parkland monies in the bank don't come close to matching what will have to be paid.

If the City confers zoning concessions, what kind of monstrosity will this permit? And which Ward will it be granted in?

Perhaps we will see a combination of both.... some cash, and some development. And perhaps some reduction in the scale of the park.

- Paul
 
Seems smart that they're trying to bundle this project into a transit-building project as well. Looks like it will have two Smart Track stations (Spadina and Bathurst).
 
The big fight will be in the land valuation for the expropriation. They are currently trying to rezone the land to make it more valuable - they have no intention of building the ORCA proposal. It's a play to make the land look valuable. I am doubtful however - the cost of decking the corridor to make the land developable would cancel out almost any value derived from its development potential. I'm seriously doubtful the ORCA proposal works from a financial perspective even if land costs = $0.

If that is the case, the city likely won't have to pay much. But you can sure bet that the ORCA will certainly try to make it out that this land is worth a ton of money and is a huge development site just waiting to happen, even if it isn't.

The fight is going to be in the appeal process for the expropriation. The city will issue the notice, take control of the land, and the purchase price can be appealed to the courts afterwards. This court battle happens relatively quickly, but I wouldn't give ORCA great chances, either.

The point is that we aren't going to see some epic fight here where the city struggles to take control of the land. The city will take control of the land even if ORCA protests - and the park can be built as they fight it out in court.

One of the biggest differences in expropriation law between Canada and the US is that in Canada the government takes control of the land regardless of if there is an appeal. South of the border, the appeals must be resolved before land is handed over. This is being seen for the new Detroit Windsor bridge currently - the canadian land has been under government ownership for years, while they are still fighting legal battles for ownership of land on the US side.



Spadina and Bathurst are so close together that it is likely one stop with two entrances. GO platforms are over 300m long remember, with only 600m between the two streets.
 
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