[Admiral Beez]

I would hope that passenger rates would be kept reasonable. I looked into taking the train to Montreal for a weekend and was shocked at how expensive it was.

It is nuts how they price those trips.

For example, I just checked out Porter Airlines website. If I wanted to travel to Montreal from Toronto Island Airport on Feb 14th and return on the 16th, the return total cost, taxes and fees in is $251.83.

Now, if I want to take VIA from Toronto Union Station to Montreal on the same days, per www.viarail.ca, their Supersaver rate is $161.70, while the regular rate is $256.20. So, at best by taking VIA I can save about $90 return, assuming the Supersaver rates are available, and I've got hours to burn compared to flying right out of the city centre.

 

[allabootmatt]

But how much do you think they could realistically spend on this project? I read $18 billion somewhere (Ill try and find the link) and damn, is that ever expensive.

Not really. Considering that, a) this is probably a ten-year build (at least), and b), once constructed I expect such a link could turn a significant profit. Much of that capital could probably be paid off in the first decade of operation.

I am also wary of the whole categorization of things in Canada as 'expensive.' Ours is one of the wealthiest countries on the planet--certainly the most fiscally and economically healthy state in the G-8, if not the entire developed world. We're sitting on enormous oil reserves. The national and subnational governments are largely in surplus. In that context, there's no such thing as 'expensive,' particularly if the expense in question would generate unbelievable spin-off benefits--consider how much of that $18Bn would be recouped through taxes on Bombardier and its employees).

What there are are priorities and non-priorities, not expensive things and cheap things. Right now, the priorities include dead-end regional assistance schemes and cutting the sales tax. At some future date, they might include high-speed rail, which is 100% within the realm of affordability for Canada, as well as for many other countries.

 

[unimaginative2]

But how much do you think they could realistically spend on this project? I read $18 billion somewhere (Ill try and find the link) and damn, is that ever expensive.

Is it, though? If Morrocco can spend that, and Spain can spend 10 times as much, why can't we?

Very well said, allabootmatt.

 

[Dan416]

The Supersaver rate from Toronto to Montreal is $59. I find this very affordable. Getting that rate though, you have to be prepared to book a few weeks in advance and be willing to go with the no refund/exchange policy. $123.90 2-way with tax. I should know considering that on Saturday the 12th I booked my ticket for Jan 25 to 30 Toronto to Montreal. Hard to find cheaper rates.

 

[unimaginative2]

VIA also offers great student rates, but many students don't know that they exist. They also frustratingly require the ISIC card that most students have never heard of either. They lose thousands of potential student riders simply to catch a handful of people who might dare to use their student cards a couple years after they graduate, or who are (the horror!) studying part time.

 

[Hydrogen]

But how much do you think they could realistically spend on this project? I read $18 billion somewhere (Ill try and find the link) and damn, is that ever expensive.

This would presumably include building a dedicated high-speed rail infrastructure from Quebec City to Windsor, and purchasing the trains to go with it. When one considers that this rail line would span the distance across many European countries, I don't find $18 billion to be an outrageous figure.

How much was spent to put the tunnel through Boston a few years back?

 

[isittimetomoveyet]

I am also wary of the whole categorization of things in Canada as 'expensive.'

Agreed. Its a drop in the bucket. I would spend the money, but will Stephen Harper?

 

[afransen]

Stephen Harper? No.

 

[isittimetomoveyet]

Would this bad boy come through Union? It would have to, wouldn't it?

 

[JasonParis]

Yup.

 

[Tewder]

The Supersaver rate from Toronto to Montreal is $59. I find this very affordable. Getting that rate though, you have to be prepared to book a few weeks in advance and be willing to go with the no refund/exchange policy. $123.90 2-way with tax. I should know considering that on Saturday the 12th I booked my ticket for Jan 25 to 30 Toronto to Montreal. Hard to find cheaper rates.

...kind of kills the idea of a spontaneous trip though. Also, if there are a few of you going the fare talley runs up pretty fast and again it becomes cheaper to take the car when you can split the tank of gas or two it takes.

 

[BobBob]

I am also wary of the whole categorization of things in Canada as 'expensive.'

So true. Canada is like the rich guy who works his ass off all day and has a cheap old suit and holes in his shoes.

 

[MisterF]

From the Montreal Gazette

Put high-speed train on the rails
Justin Bur, The Gazette
Published: Saturday, January 12

The premiers of Ontario and Quebec have announced a feasibility study for high-speed rail in the Quebec City-Windsor corridor, including the key Montreal-Ottawa-Toronto triangle. It is good news indeed that better
intercity transportation is back on the political agenda. But it is hardly a new idea. At least seven studies have been conducted on the subject in the past quarter century, each one shelved for two main reasons: the high cost of the project, and doubts that the corridor has the population to justify such a service. Are these really valid objections?

Over the period that high-speed rail has been rejected as "too expensive", many billions of dollars of public and private money have been lavished on airport expansion and highway development. The

Toronto Pearson airport expansion alone would cover the costs of a high-speed line between Toronto and Montreal. What do we have to show for this investment? A passenger transport system entirely based on
petroleum consumption, with little hope of using alternative energies in the medium term. The highest possible emissions of smog and greenhouse gases. Frequent congestion in airports and on highways. High vulnerability to adverse weather conditions. No other country in the industrialized world does quite so badly, except perhaps the United States. The question is not whether high-speed rail is too expensive, but rather how we can afford to delay it any longer.

Doubts about the population of the Quebec-Windsor corridor are equally misplaced. The fact that we have large planes flying half-hourly each way between Toronto and Montreal, in addition to VIA Rail's most heavily travelled routes and the busiest highways in Canada, demonstrates the demand for travel in this part of Canada. By international standards, the population numbers and distances between the cities are well suited for successful fast trains. What the population is not sufficient for, however, is building high-speed rail while also retaining all the air traffic. Airlines and politicians are legitimately worried about the risk of destabilizing the fragile Canadian air transport system. The way out of this problem is not for lobbyists to block high-speed rail, but rather for airlines to negotiate favorable terms for using high-speed trains to transport passengers bearing airline tickets. This is common practice in Western Europe and of benefit to traveller and airline alike.

Let us rejoice that fast trains are once more on the agenda. This time, the project must go forth: our future mobility is at stake. Justin Bur is vice-president east of Transport 2000 Canada.

-----------------

I found the bolded part interesting. How much is the new Pickering airport and related infrastructure supposed to cost?

 

[nfitz]

How much is the new Pickering airport and related infrastructure supposed to cost?

$2 billion I think was the most recent number for the first phase - if they ever build it. I think they've spent about $4 billion on Pearson in the last decade. Lots of money - but not quite enough to build high-speed from Montreal to Toronto.

 

[EnviroTO]

I'm pretty sure "a study" is code for "pander for votes by seeming interested in something you will not be doing". If they were serious they would be doing an environmental assessment and not a study. This has been studied to death. If they aren't going to build a true high speed rail link they should at least focus on increasing the average speed in the corridor to 150km/h and get some new rolling stock.

Here are the current average speeds per segment:
Windsor-Chatham = 95km/h
Chatham-London = 105km/h
Sarnia-London=103km/h
London-Kitchener=69km/h OUCH!
Kitchener-Toronto=65km/h OUCH!
London-Aldershot=91km/h
Niagara Falls-Aldershot=62km/h OUCH!
Aldershot-Toronto=92km/h
Toronto-Montreal Express=123km/h OK
Toronto-Kingston=111km/h
Kingston-Montreal=122km/h OK
Kingston-Ottawa=96km/h
Ottawa-Montreal=114km/h
Montreal-Quebec City=88km/h

It is really pathetic once the average speed drops below 100km/h because at that point it isn't even competitive with a car going the speed limit. On the freeway the average speed is about 115-120 km/h so the train should be faster than that.