[Mr.Colley]

Not to criticize your work and I realize that this is more focused on historical lines but do you think that a routing through Owen sound and Manotoulin island to Slt Ste Marie be used as a short cut? It would be quite difficult I imagine and with a few bridges.

I'm not the expert but depends on network availability, you want a train to be able to hit as may stations as possbile... But still make good times. And infostructer and structural engerniering has gone a long way from when rail was first ingtrduced.

 

[RedRocket191]

Not to criticize your work and I realize that this is more focused on historical lines but do you think that a routing through Owen sound and Manotoulin island to Slt Ste Marie be used as a short cut? It would be quite difficult I imagine and with a few bridges.

The Manitoulin & North Shore Railway (I drew it but have no idea why it isn't showing up) once ran from Little Current to Spanish River, but I don't think it would be feasible to bridge the gap. What could be done is incorporate the Tobermory - South Baymouth ferry for through service.

 

[Mr.Colley]

As well, what completely new tracks would have to be laid (esp for the high speed trains) to make this feasible, and how will development around major stations be handled?

What actual technology would be used for these trains? as there are many out there right now, what would you be leaning towards and why?

 

[Mr.Colley]

The Manitoulin & North Shore Railway (I drew it but have no idea why it isn't showing up) once ran from Little Current to Spanish River, but I don't think it would be feasible to bridge the gap. What could be done is incorporate the Tobermory - South Baymouth ferry for through service.

wouldn't using the farry system slow down your service levels dramitacly though? and how would you incorperate that if you were going to?

 

[RedRocket191]

Wow very impressive. It's pretty interesting how the GTA has been able to keep a lot of those lines in working order.

I wonder how a project such as this would be actually phased in. Obviously it can't all appear at the same time, so what order would the phasing in be. When would express services be brought in (in the beginning to enhance prestige or at the end to complement existing services?). How much would it all cost to retrofit the existing rails and electrify and how much would it cost to buy the trainsets, build the stations and rezone areas. As well how much would we have to change local transit to reorganize around this new train infrastructure?

As well, what completely new tracks would have to be laid (esp for the high speed trains) to make this feasible, and how will development around major stations be handled?

Unfortunately I'm not a railway engineer so I can't really fathom a guess on costs. I created this map to get people thinking about what would happen if we lived in a province where you could live in any town you wanted to and never be limited by your ability to operate a vehicle.

Express service would come in as demand warrants. Obviously lines like the Toronto - Ottawa - Montreal mainline has pent up demand, and there are other city pares that might have that demand as well. I just want to differentiate between TGV style service and selective stop service to protect the prestige of the express brand. If every single train is a TGV then none of them are.

I believe that train stations should be as close to the city centre as possible, and that's why I've used street railway alignments to bring trains closer to the CBD. In many cases this means that cities that already have downtown terminals won't have to re-arrange their local service. Any re-zoning would of course be in context. There would be pressure to intensify around stations, but I don't think anyone wants to see Hanover or Mount Forest turn into Yonge & Eglinton.

 

[Mr.Colley]

Unfortunately I'm not a railway engineer so I can't really fathom a guess on costs. I created this map to get people thinking about what would happen if we lived in a province where you could live in any town you wanted to and never be limited by your ability to operate a vehicle.

Express service would come in as demand warrants. Obviously lines like the Toronto - Ottawa - Montreal mainline has pent up demand, and there are other city pares that might have that demand as well. I just want to differentiate between TGV style service and selective stop service to protect the prestige of the express brand. If every single train is a TGV then none of them are.

I believe that train stations should be as close to the city centre as possible, and that's why I've used street railway alignments to bring trains closer to the CBD. In many cases this means that cities that already have downtown terminals won't have to re-arrange their local service. Any re-zoning would of course be in context. There would be pressure to intensify around stations, but I don't think anyone wants to see Hanover or Mount Forest turn into Yonge & Eglinton.

Makes sense, I look forward to seeing something like this develope over the next couple of years, if it takes off... What are your thoughts on it being put into practice?

 

[RedRocket191]

wouldn't using the farry system slow down your service levels dramitacly though? and how would you incorperate that if you were going to?

I just don't feel comfortable building a railway bridge through Fathom Five National Marine Park...

I was thinking the train could be scheduled to meet the Ferry at either end. It means transfers but it's the simple solution.

What actual technology would be used for these trains? as there are many out there right now, what would you be leaning towards and why?

I definitely have a bias towards european equipment (as you can probably tell from the visual examples I chose). Look at what they run in England and you can get an idea of the type of rolling stock I would like to see.

 

[Mr.Colley]

I just don't feel comfortable building a railway bridge through Fathom Five National Marine Park...

I was thinking the train could be scheduled to meet the Ferry at either end. It means transfers but it's the simple solution.



I definitely have a bias towards european equipment (as you can probably tell from the visual examples I chose). Look at what they run in England and you can get an idea of the type of rolling stock I would like to see.

Thats what i thought, Yah transfers can be a hassle but they eventyually work out a solution that works well.

And haha I'm not supprised, considering no where else in the world is the train more respected and widely used..

 

[kettal]

Regional transit in Victoria, Australia. There is high-speed diesel to most railway stations. Note that even the 2nd largest city in this state has a population less than 80,000. It's much lower density than Southern Ontario.

 

[jn_12]

Great work.

This map is a great example of why Welland is called the city "where rails and water meet." A city like Welland would return to the prosperity it felt 50-60 years ago if a system like this was up and running. It could be a really great comparative advantage for cities who don't fall in the 401/QEW corridor.


Also, someone mentioned that a big barrier is money. That's bullshit. We need to get beyond this mentality that we don't have the money here to do these great projects (whether it's anything from quality of life to museums to transportation infrastructure). We are in the richest part of one of the richest countries in the world. No one can deny that. Yet, for being in such a position we've come to accept mediocrity. I don't think we need to pave our streets with gold, but things could be so much better if we didn't have this mindset. I'm not suggesting that we throw money at every proposed line in this document, but if the only reason we aren't doing something that makes sense is because of money, then we need to give our heads a shake.

 

[MisterF]

Great map, RedRocket. It's amazing how many rail lines there used to be - I've been looking at it for a while. One line is missing that I can see, the CP Nephton sub which goes north from Havelock. It's still an active line.

 

[RedRocket191]

Great map, RedRocket. It's amazing how many rail lines there used to be - I've been looking at it for a while. One line is missing that I can see, the CP Nephton sub which goes north from Havelock. It's still an active line.

Noted. I'll see what I can do but that area has low resolution imagery. That's the main barrier to documenting these lines from my sofa.

 

[Mr.Colley]

Noted. I'll see what I can do but that area has low resolution imagery. That's the main barrier to documenting these lines from my sofa.

You were using google maps for this correct??? Just out of curiousity...
Try seeing what mapquest has. for their street view. its pretty decent. and the keep updated info on that kind of thing if im not miskaten

 

[lead82]

It would be fantastic to have all these rail lines back up and running in Ontario. It would give us a huge advantage in terms of building superb infrastructure. A massive problem is money of course, but also when I said mentality, I meant the mentality of the population and mentality of the government.

The government has a huge vested interest in the auto industry, and there are many jobs tied to it. That's why we're seeing billions being wasted to subsidize bankrupt companies.

In terms of politics, most governments don't have a vision, they don't really care about the future and are just there to taste power for a while while appeasing their local constituents.

Look at the current federal / provincial governments. Neither have a plan or a strategy on how to create new industries and get Ontario/ Canada to prosper once again.

Also, in Ontario it's much easier to build a highway network than it is to build a rail network. We need to build both since our highway network is basically at capacity now, and our rail network is primitive.

When money is tight, governments spend on things that provide biggest bang for the buck, that in NA is the highway.

To get back to a rail-based infrastructure would require a huge shift away from the automobile and a much higher reliance on public transit by everyone in the province, not just folks living in big cities. That is unlikely to happen unless you jack up gas prices and car prices with huge taxes.

 

[AnarchoSocialist]

Excellent work Redrocket. This is just the kind of thinking that needs to infuse transportation planning departments right now.

I am curious about a few things. Did you first look at existing or past alignments of rail lines to determine routes and service, or was there a conceptual component that looked at what connections would make the most sense before the lines were drawn? Also, do you intend to develop a schedule for this network, identifying priority projects and lines, or work that could be done not to create one particular service, but rather too benefit the network at large (the case of electrifying and upgrading Lakeshore comes to mind)? Finally, how far do you plan to take this project? Is this pretty much the extent of it or do want to do more such as more detailed route planning, cost analysis, ridership estimates, etc?

Part of the reason I ask is because I am working on something similar, but for Quebec, so I am curious as to your approaches and experiences putting this together.