[dusk]

There's a lot of discussion in the King Transit Priority thread about citywide improvements to streetcar operations. I've created this thread to consolidate those discussions.

As it turns out, the City of Toronto and Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) are currently studying RapidTO, which is an initiative to enhance bus and streetcar transit across Toronto through implementation of priority measures. The following routes were proposed for prioritization in Phase 2 of the RapidTO plan (below).

Phase 3 will include a series of roadway-specific studies over the next decade (2022 to 2032). This presents a rare opportunity for us to rethink our streetcar operations.

A similar thread should probably be made for the RapidTO bus network.

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Studies will last 10 years? We can conduct studies and make many of these changes in 10 months. This city is genuinely doomed if we can't move MUCH FASTER.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Studies will last 10 years? We can conduct studies and make many of these changes in 10 months. This city is genuinely doomed if we can't move MUCH FASTER.

The RapidTO corridors will be studied over 10 years, but implementation will begin on the corridors as soon as the design for that particular corridor is complete.

So I’d imagine we’d see one or two roads a year get upgraded. I hope.

 

[afransen]

The RapidTO corridors will be studied over 10 years, but implementation will begin on the corridors as soon as the design for that particular corridor is complete.

So I’d imagine we’d see one or two roads a year get upgraded. I hope.

Still seems very unambitious.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Still seems very unambitious.

What would you like to see changed?

 

[desperateAmbassador]

What would you like to see changed?

Considering much of this is policy and not infrastructure, I'd imagine a substantial amount could be implemented in weeks not years - no?

 

[Sunnyside]

Considering much of this is policy and not infrastructure, I'd imagine a substantial amount could be implemented in weeks not years - no?

It is an unfortunate reality, but there are consequences to reducing major thoroughfare’s capacities by 30-50% by converting lanes to transit lanes. While it would be nice to get these all out of the way in one fell swoop, the way these things get done will require analysis of each corridor and the impacts that will result. Bus lanes on Dufferin are not the same as bus lanes on Steeles, etc etc. Even though we already “know” what the result will be, we take an incremental approach. That’s a problem, but you can only do these things so quickly. One big study is probably far more intimidating for the city vs. A bunch of smaller ones.

I would like to see a general framework for what happens to a “typical” Toronto avenue and it’s traffic once bus lanes are installed. That would speed up things I imagine.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Toronto's curbside patios made nearly 50x more money than the parking spots they took up​

See link

One of the best things that the many painstaking months of lockdown brought us was the innovation of curbside patios that have become an enduring norm in cities like Toronto, where the streets now feel absolutely alive with all sorts of bustling new outdoor dining spaces.

Taking up sidewalks, parking lanes, and private property space not previously allocated to patios, the CafeTO program was a boon for restaurants, bars and cafes that were struggling to operate under orders that only permitted outdoor dining at points.

Many got creative with their space, making it an extension of the indoors that customers so dearly missed, especially during the colder months.

And, it was an absolute hit — but we didn't really know to what financial extent, until recently.

A new comparison by The Globe & Mail shows that while residents spent a whopping $181 million at curbside patios during summer 2021 alone (13 weeks from June 30 to September 22), only about $3.7 million would have been earned from the parking fees associated with the spaces those patios took up during the same time period.

That's a staggering 49 times more revenue, all of it going into the pockets of local businesses.

And, anyone who's sat on or even just walked by these patios over the last few summers will be able to say that they enrich the vibe of the city and enable more people to enjoy it — and the outdoors — in a new way.

It's not the only way that public space usually designated for cars has been transforming in the city, either, with parking lots turning into pop-up parks, lush green spaces taking up former parking lanes on major roadways and entire thoroughfares shutting down on certain weekends for bikes and pedestrians to take over.

There is also the famed King Street Transit Priority Corridor, which, though it has looked better, designates curb lanes to transitgoers and pedestrians, and prohibits left-turning and straight-through car traffic on a stretch of King.

Though many of these initiatives are temporary, some of them — like the King Street "pilot" and CafeTO — have been made permanent due to demand, making the city question its traditional car-centricity that is inherent by design.

 

[TRONto]

I don't see why this wouldn't work on Spadina, though I've never seen a lagging left turn phase anywhere in Ontario so maybe the MTO doesn't allow them.

Highway 6 in Guelph has a lagging left.

 

[jmi22]

It is an unfortunate reality, but there are consequences to reducing major thoroughfare’s capacities by 30-50% by converting lanes to transit lanes. While it would be nice to get these all out of the way in one fell swoop, the way these things get done will require analysis of each corridor and the impacts that will result. Bus lanes on Dufferin are not the same as bus lanes on Steeles, etc etc. Even though we already “know” what the result will be, we take an incremental approach. That’s a problem, but you can only do these things so quickly. One big study is probably far more intimidating for the city vs. A bunch of smaller ones.

I would like to see a general framework for what happens to a “typical” Toronto avenue and it’s traffic once bus lanes are installed. That would speed up things I imagine.

I'd say this is a bit of a misnomer. By implementing bus/dedicated streetcar R.O.Ws on streets you are not reducing capacity, you are increasing it.

Relatively unrelated, the complete lack of interest in improving the streetcar network is incomprehensible to me. As much as David Miller gets mocked for the large parts of Transit City plan being unserious, at least he was beginning to look at converting streetcar lines into modern LRTs. This refusal to change the network is very deep rooted, even in the TTC's 'policy' of not seeking dedicated streetcar right of ways on streets not wide enough to maintain the r.o.w, street parking on both sides and at least four total lanes of traffic.

If not for this completely artificial limitation, College, Dundas, Queen, and King could have major portions of their routes placed in exclusive r.o.w while still maintaining one traffic lane in each direction.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I'd say this is a bit of a misnomer. By implementing bus/dedicated streetcar R.O.Ws on streets you are not reducing capacity, you are increasing it.

Relatively unrelated, the complete lack of interest in improving the streetcar network is incomprehensible to me. As much as David Miller gets mocked for the large parts of Transit City plan being unserious, at least he was beginning to look at converting streetcar lines into modern LRTs. This refusal to change the network is very deep rooted, even in the TTC's 'policy' of not seeking dedicated streetcar right of ways on streets not wide enough to maintain the r.o.w, street parking on both sides and at least four total lanes of traffic.

If not for this completely artificial limitation, College, Dundas, Queen, and King could have major portions of their routes placed in exclusive r.o.w while still maintaining one traffic lane in each direction.

Get rid of street parking on Bay, College, Dundas, Queen, King, and Bathurst entirely. There is off-street parking available. Should be taking public transit instead anyways. Allow curbs to be used for short term deliveries and pickups only.

 

[adys123]

I'd say this is a bit of a misnomer. By implementing bus/dedicated streetcar R.O.Ws on streets you are not reducing capacity, you are increasing it.

Relatively unrelated, the complete lack of interest in improving the streetcar network is incomprehensible to me. As much as David Miller gets mocked for the large parts of Transit City plan being unserious, at least he was beginning to look at converting streetcar lines into modern LRTs. This refusal to change the network is very deep rooted, even in the TTC's 'policy' of not seeking dedicated streetcar right of ways on streets not wide enough to maintain the r.o.w, street parking on both sides and at least four total lanes of traffic.

If not for this completely artificial limitation, College, Dundas, Queen, and King could have major portions of their routes placed in exclusive r.o.w while still maintaining one traffic lane in each direction.

Absolutely, and this is something that is very much ingrained in our (North American) thinking. It's something that is very hard to get idea across. Transit lanes increase capacity, and that's something that's been confirmed by academics over and over again.

 

[afransen]

Not to mention that 2 lanes don't have much less capacity than 4 lanes where there is provision for turn lanes. Parking along the streetcar lines should definitely be eliminated.

 

[reaperexpress]

Not to mention that 2 lanes don't have much less capacity than 4 lanes where there is provision for turn lanes. Parking along the streetcar lines should definitely be eliminated.

Exactly. The capacity of a street is determined by its intersections, not its midblock cross-section. An urban 1-lane-per-direction street with left and right turn lanes at intersections will typically have MORE capacity for motor traffic than a 2-lane-per-direction street without any turn lanes. And that's before you add in the effective capacity from whatever you do with the space you freed up (e.g. more bicycle use due to new bike lanes).

 

[Northern Light]

In respect of the several posts above; the curbside management strategy is en route.

Expect a considerable reduction in on-street parking on major roads.

I would support, but be surprised to see wholesale removal of same across the board, even on streetcar routes. Though, removal through the downtown core is plausible.

I would hasten to add, the space available for re-allocation will go to a number of different purposes depending on the location.

Expect more patios, both year-round and seasonal; expect bike lanes (painted) to become cycle tracks with physical separation, expect some permanent sidewalk widenings, while some of the space might go to exclusive streetcar ROWs, I expect that will be relatively modest.

Nonetheless I expect this strategy will benefit streetcars, particularly in the winter by reducing the likelihood of an errantly parked car blocking their path.

 

[jmi22]

In respect of the several posts above; the curbside management strategy is en route.

Expect a considerable reduction in on-street parking on major roads.

I would support, but be surprised to see wholesale removal of same across the board, even on streetcar routes. Though, removal through the downtown core is plausible.

I would hasten to add, the space available for re-allocation will to to a number of different purposes depending on the location.

Expect more patios, both year-round and seasonal; expect bike lanes (painted) to become cycle tracks with physical separation, expect some permanent sidewalk widenings, while some of the space might go to exclusive streetcar ROWs, I expect that will be relatively modest.

Nonetheless I expect this strategy will benefit streetcars, particularly in the winter by reducing the likelihood of an errantly parked car blocking their path.

Yes on some very tight areas, especially those with major retail along them, the city is going to have to choose between bike paths/CafeTO/or any car lanes at all. The clear choice is to eliminate all car traffic where it comes down to choosing between that and better streetscapes. Specifically along King and Queen, from Bathurst to the Don river there is no reason to maintain through traffic as Adelaide and Richmond are literally spitting distance away, and are designed to facilitate the flow of traffic.

This streetcar inhibiting tradition is so deep rooted, that the only reason the King pilot even got off the ground was due to the effort of Andy Byford during his time at the head of the TTC. Sad to say it took a Englishman coming over to Toronto to get us to do one thing right.