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Fascinating discussion. Just a couple of years ago after the pandemic subsided, there was a lot of talk about WFH being the new norm going forward, and a lot of people took on jobs under the assumption that that would be the case, only for things to shift back now...
 
Towered said:
Fascinating discussion. Just a couple of years ago after the pandemic subsided, there was a lot of talk about WFH being the new norm going forward, and a lot of people took on jobs under the assumption that that would be the case, only for things to shift back now...
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I briefly thought about moving out of the GTA, but figured that I should wait until things normalized. I was proven correct.
 
Northern Light said:
Amazon's work culture is very hard-driving. Their churn rate reflects this, lots of executives don't make it. Amazon can pay well if you make it up the food chain, but they will get every cent back out of you in work product.
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Experienced this first hand, I was always impressed by our productivity but I knew it wasn’t sustainable. It was stressful.

I quit last summer when they began a 3 day RTO. The Toronto offices didn’t have enough space so you only got a permanent desk if you came in 5 days a week!
 
reinventingthewheel said:
Experienced this first hand, I was always impressed by our productivity but I knew it wasn’t sustainable. It was stressful.

I quit last summer when they began a 3 day RTO. The Toronto offices didn’t have enough space so you only got a permanent desk if you came in 5 days a week!
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More on the tech side? Curious to hear your experience working for Amazon in terms of expectation for hours worked, general culture/pressure and stress. I've spoken with people in operations and I have heard some wild stories.
 
Towered said:
Fascinating discussion. Just a couple of years ago after the pandemic subsided, there was a lot of talk about WFH being the new norm going forward, and a lot of people took on jobs under the assumption that that would be the case, only for things to shift back now...
Click to expand...
Hopefully they knew they rolled the dice. When our headquarters was in downtown Toronto, I know people who moved to Milton, Cambridge, Guelph, etc. when it was rumoured that it was going to moved to Guelph. It moved to Orillia.
afransen said:
I briefly thought about moving out of the GTA, but figured that I should wait until things normalized. I was proven correct.
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Lots of people moved to north Simcoe County and Muskoka, and probably other peripheral areas, in the early days of COVID, no doubt banking on WFH. I wonder how that is working out for some.

Living at the cottage is a lot different in February than July.

This had effect of driving the housing prices up.
 
rdaner said:
I know of a couple that moved to Cobourg during Covid for space reasons but have now also bought a condo on Yonge because they spent so much time coming in to town!
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At least they have a convenient VIA Rail connection. At 1.25 hrs and about $25 each way from Cobourg to Union, that’s doable for anyone RTO 2-3 days a week, especially if you have a condo downtown as a base. If you’re RTO in Toronto Tues-Thurs, you can be home in Cobourg in time for Thursday dinner.
 
Towered said:
Fascinating discussion. Just a couple of years ago after the pandemic subsided, there was a lot of talk about WFH being the new norm going forward, and a lot of people took on jobs under the assumption that that would be the case, only for things to shift back now...
Click to expand...
I’ve had the opposite experience. For the entirety of my career in CPG and export sales, beyond a 3 year stint at Yonge and Lawrence, my offices have been far away, in Malton, Concord, Markham, Port Credit and even KW. I often wondered as I pondered career change why, with thousands of white collar employers nearby, I could never land a job in the downtown core within easy reach of my home in Cabbagetown. Then Covid hit, and my York Region employee banished us all office staff to our homes to make more space for Ops, where we’re all still working from today. So I now finally get to live and work downtown, with no commute, parks nearby for midday dog walks. Sometimes I go to the office to pickup samples for my on the road sales trips, but often we just meet at the boss’ place nearby for backyard meetings. Covid has fundamentally improved my work life balance.

A goal of mine for years has been to make more money per hour (calculated over my salary) through a combination of increasing wages AND fewer hours (including time commuting). A friend of mine got a promotion that came with a 25% raise but with increased RTO, which given all the unpaid overtime and commuting equaled a more than 40% increase in time dedicated to work, meaning to me, you’re going backwards. More money for less time at work (including commuting time), that’s the Covid way, lol.
 
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Towered said:
Fascinating discussion. Just a couple of years ago after the pandemic subsided, there was a lot of talk about WFH being the new norm going forward, and a lot of people took on jobs under the assumption that that would be the case, only for things to shift back now...
Click to expand...

Yes how times have changed. First it was WFH is here to stay, and then it was hybrid office/WFH, Now a lot of companies expect employees to be in the office five days a week. I know people who moved from downtown, all the way to the burbs and nearby cities. Only to be called back to the office downtown a year or so later after they moved.

We are not at pre-pandemic occupancy levels yet, but the trend is climbing upwards.


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gabe said:
I know people who moved from downtown, all the way to the burbs and nearby cities. Only to be called back to the office downtown a year or so later after they moved.
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Unless your terms of employment have been formally and permanently changed to WFH/remote that is just a dumb move. To up sticks, sell your home, incur all that land transfer tax, moving costs, etc. on the hope that the emergency measures of Covid were now forever was a bad move.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Unless your terms of employment have been formally and permanently changed to WFH/remote that is just a dumb move. To up sticks, sell your home, incur all that land transfer tax, moving costs, etc. on the hope that the emergency measures of Covid were now forever was a bad move.
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It is pretty stupid actually, and I'm amazed that so many otherwise intelligent, well educated people embraced it 🤷‍♀️
 
Interesting article about Ottawa public servants who are able to use federal co-working spaces closer to home to avoid long commutes.


My work recently hired a management consultancy that has a large office footprint around the GTA. Staff in the suburbs are able to travel to a local office (for instance, Oakville) once a week, while being required to work out of their Downtown Toronto head office once a week.
 
christiesplits said:
Interesting article about Ottawa public servants who are able to use federal co-working spaces closer to home to avoid long commutes.


My work recently hired a management consultancy that has a large office footprint around the GTA. Staff in the suburbs are able to travel to a local office (for instance, Oakville) once a week, while being required to work out of their Downtown Toronto head office once a week.
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Unless you’re meeting in person with colleagues or clients in those locations this is just someone ticking a box for seat time. You might as well wfh.
 
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