[TossYourJacket]

From CNBC.

Roundabouts Are Safer. So Why Does The U.S. Have So Few Of Them?​

Years ago, back when I lived out that way, they put in a roundabout on Hwy 2, near Kingston, I think specifically it's around Orillia. People are complete morons when it comes to driving through it. I've seen someone drive in the wrong direction, which is insane given how counter intuitive it is, but it's like people see a roundabout and all intelligence goes out the window.

 

[lenaitch]

Years ago, back when I lived out that way, they put in a roundabout on Hwy 2, near Kingston, I think specifically it's around Orillia. People are complete morons when it comes to driving through it. I've seen someone drive in the wrong direction, which is insane given how counter intuitive it is, but it's like people see a roundabout and all intelligence goes out the window.

Kingston and Orillia are quite a distance apart. There is a new one at Hwy 12 and CR 169 east of Orillia, several along the Hwy 26 'bypass south of Collingwood and one on CR 93 in Midland ust off the top of my head.

Sure there is a learning curve (and you are right that it is very counter-intuitive) but at least mistakes don't result in head-on or t-bone collisions.

 

[lenaitch]

but it's like people see a roundabout and all intelligence goes out the window.

I notice most roundabouts that are complete reconstructions, and particularly where the surrounding speed limit is higher, have designed-in reverse curves to slow and direct vehicles to go the right. I have seen the very odd motorist go left, which is a bit of a feat because it amounts to a turn-back.

If the intersection is simply a wider right angle approach with an island in the middle, perhaps in an urban setting, I can somewhat understand the tendency to turn left if that is the desired destination, probably moreso among older or timid drivers. To them, I suppose the concept of going right to go left is counter-intuitive. There is one that I am aware of that is adjacent to a police station, and when it first went in, the 'Mexican standoffs' between cruisers and confused motorists was comical to see.

 

[TossYourJacket]

Kingston and Orillia are quite a distance apart. There is a new one at Hwy 12 and CR 169 east of Orillia, several along the Hwy 26 'bypass south of Collingwood and one on CR 93 in Midland ust off the top of my head.

Sure there is a learning curve (and you are right that it is very counter-intuitive) but at least mistakes don't result in head-on or t-bone collisions.

Ooops I meant Odessa

My bad.

 

[Northern Light]

Changes coming to some Leaside intersections as part of Vision Zero:

From the presentation, I found this interesting:

Report briefly notes some steps to shifting mode in the form of:

The Crosstown (Line 5)
Additional Cycle Tracks nearby.
Addition of Bikeshare stations.

***

I would argue that to make cycling work for local trips, Cycle Tracks are required on both Laird and Bayview.

To discourage local trips by car, also required is:

Removing on-street parking on Laird entirely and on one side of Bayview.

Implementing paid parking on any side street that meets Eglinton or runs parallel to it within 300M

Boost bus service on both Bayview, Laird and through Leaside.

Provide more bus shelters.

***

Presentation here: https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/u...ide-NTP-Near-Term-Plan-Presentation-FINAL.pdf

 

[afransen]

Any insight into why Toronto prefers using asphalt for raised crossings for minor streets like Bessborough? It would seem that best practice is to use the sidewalk material to emphasize that the need to yield to pedestrians (cars are crossing the sidewalk, not pedestrians crossing the street). It feels like a missed opportunity, one that might erroneously lead to conclusions that raised crossings don't produce the expected safety benefits.

 

[Northern Light]

Any insight into why Toronto prefers using asphalt for raised crossings for minor streets like Bessborough? It would seem that best practice is to use the sidewalk material to emphasize that the need to yield to pedestrians (cars are crossing the sidewalk, not pedestrians crossing the street). It feels like a missed opportunity, one that might erroneously lead to conclusions that raised crossings don't produce the expected safety benefits.

I don't have that now, but I will ask; and get back to you.

 

[Northern Light]

@afransen ; I have your answer(s)

1) The choice of asphalt is based on people w/low vision being able to infer that the space they are entering permits cars.

2) The Ontario Traffic Manual and the Transport Association of Canada have generally discouraged continuous sidewalks across roads.

Though, apparently have just released a paper suggesting a possible change of direction.

https://www.tac-atc.ca/sites/default/files/site/doc/publications/2023/epb-csbp-e.pdf

Edit to add: @reaperexpress ; have you read the above?

I'm just reading it now, I see that right off the bat they are using an example from The Netherlands......

 

[Northern Light]

I would encourage those interested to read the paper itself. That said, I'll bring forward a couple of items people might find useful/interesting:

Canadian examples of continuous sidewalk:

Once again, the above from: https://www.tac-atc.ca/sites/default/files/site/doc/publications/2023/epb-csbp-e.pdf

*****

Interesting to see Edmonton a leader here again..........they were the first major urban centre in Canada to abolish parking minimums.

Now leading on continuous sidewalk.

Edmonton is far from an urbanists paradise, but clearly making some strides in recent years.

 

[afransen]

@afransen ; I have your answer(s)

1) The choice of asphalt is based on people w/low vision being able to infer that the space they are entering permits cars.

2) The Ontario Traffic Manual and the Transport Association of Canada have generally discouraged continuous sidewalks across roads.

Though, apparently have just released a paper suggesting a possible change of direction.

https://www.tac-atc.ca/sites/default/files/site/doc/publications/2023/epb-csbp-e.pdf

Edit to add: @reaperexpress ; have you read the above.

I'm just reading it now, I see that right off the bat they are using an example from The Netherlands......

Thanks for digging. I guess based on those guidelines, the Bessborough intersection would likely be suitable for a continuous sidewalk, but the City is taking the more conservative approach of a raised crossing. It is encouraging to see some international best practice is percolating into Canadian practitioner's thought leadership.

 

[Northern Light]

Thanks for digging.

You're quite welcome.

,but the City is taking the more conservative approach of a raised crossing.

The City's internal guidelines for cycling and pedestrian infra are being revised as we speak and have been evolved quite a bit in the last few years.

There was certainly a great deal of room for improvement; and there remains more distance to cover.

But I think its fair to say current staff are very much aware of that and trying to evolve the standards in the right direction.

It is encouraging to see some international best practice is percolating into Canadian practitioner's thought leadership.

Agreed.

 

[MisterF]

Here's some more information on Metral Drive in Nanaimo, from the Transportation Association of Canada no less. The Nanaimo design has a tactile strip to alert the visually impaired that they're entering space where vehicles cross. Edmonton too by the looks of it.

A New Standard for Raised Local Intersections​

With successful implementation, numerous awards and considerable industry interest in the wider adoption of continuous sidewalks and bike paths, ISL representatives are working with other practitioners on TAC’s Active Transportation Integrated Committee toward a new synthesis of emerging practice focused on continuous sidewalks and bike paths. This report will build awareness and hopefully support enhacements to TAC’s formal design guidance, and is expected to be finalized later in 2023.

Street View

 

[W. K. Lis]

This should apply to all parents who might attempt to chauffeur their kids to and from school...

'It's already a nightmare,' Belmont Police ask parents not to drive kids to school this year​

From link

The bittersweet 'so long' to summer feels a little extra bitter in Belmont. That's because parents and neighbors are bracing themselves for brutal traffic when the school bell rings.

"Going on Concord Ave, it's already a nightmare. Just regular traffic because so many people cut through Belmont from Route 2 to get into Boston, to get to the Pike. That road is almost impassable," one mother told WBZ-TV.

Another middle school parent said that Concord Avenue's weekday gridlock serves as her alarm clock.

"The traffic can start really early, like 6:30, all the way through at least 9:30 to 10," she explained.

It's expected to get even worse this year, when grades 7 and 8 join grades 9 through 12 at the new combined middle and high school.

"One of the main concerns really is I don't know how an emergency vehicle could get through to any of the areas," a Belmont neighbor said.

Belmont police are asking parents not to drive their students, so they don't add to the problem. If families must take their cars, they're asked to park a block away and walk the rest.

"We're fortunate that we're able to walk or bike to the school. It's nice because not only do we get exercise, but it's good for the environment," said a mom walking with her kindergartener downtown.

Belmont says they've seen skyrocketing enrollment over the past six years, with more than 100 students joining the system annually. School leaders anticipate close to 4,900 students by 2024. This year, classes resume September 6.

Walk or cycle your kids to and from school this year.

Maybe actually have the police or parking enforcement officers ticket the motorists for "parking", "standing", or "stopping" in the school vicinity? Mail the ticket if they drive off. Give the crossing guards the ability to photo the offenders (timestamped and GPS location would be recording on their smartphones) and e-mail them to the city to do the paperwork.

 

[afransen]

Here's some more information on Metral Drive in Nanaimo, from the Transportation Association of Canada no less. The Nanaimo design has a tactile strip to alert the visually impaired that they're entering space where vehicles cross. Edmonton too by the looks of it.

A New Standard for Raised Local Intersections​

Street View

This is very good. I would say it would be ideal if there was room for cars to wait between the cycle track and the roadway so cars can avoid blocking the cycle track when waiting to turn, and for cars turning onto the minor street to navigate the oncoming traffic conflict without needing to proceed immediately through the cycle track instead of splitting focus between cars, cyclists and pedestrians all at the same time and needing to 'gun it' in their window.

 

[lenaitch]

This should apply to all parents who might attempt to chauffeur their kids to and from school...

'It's already a nightmare,' Belmont Police ask parents not to drive kids to school this year​

From link




Walk or cycle your kids to and from school this year.

Maybe actually have the police or parking enforcement officers ticket the motorists for "parking", "standing", or "stopping" in the school vicinity? Mail the ticket if they drive off. Give the crossing guards the ability to photo the offenders (timestamped and GPS location would be recording on their smartphones) and e-mail them to the city to do the paperwork.

Here's a concept: have the kids walk/bike to school. I realize it's an 'ok boomer' moment, but when I went to school in North York, the only kid I recall getting a ride was because he had leg braces from polio. Parents simply didn't drive their kids, and that is from an era when the mother was typically stay-at-home. I was about 2.5 km from junior high (6-9); fairly close to high school but because of some of the programs the school offered, some students came from many kilometers away - no parent drove.

At the house we just moved from, our next door neighbour jumped in her car and drove to pick up their able-bodied kid from the school bus - four houses away.

Fair point about the police/parking authority doing enforcement, if the bylaw legislation is in place. The problem can be every school can potentially have the same congestion and exactly the same time(s), every day.

There would be evidentiary problems with having crossing guards taking photos. Besides, I would rather the crossing guard focus on their primary job of protecting the kids while crossing.