[nfitz]

No

Agreed - default should be 30 km/hr, which is what we are seeing on side streets more and more.

Surely the default should be the most common. Currently it's probably 40 ... which means there's a lot of unnecessary signage because the default is 50.

 

[Neutrino]

I don't think arterial limits should be lowered.

 

[nfitz]

I don't think arterial limits should be lowered.

Depends on which artery. Those that are 40 shouldn't be lowered. Many of those that are 50 or 60 shouldn't be lowered.

The default speed limit though is more about what limit you have, that you have to post signs if it's different. Many (if not most) side streets in Toronto do not have 50 limits, but the default is 50. So most streets needs signs. If the default was the speed that most streets were, then you'd need less signage, and could save money.

Though I suppose one could argue that you might want signs anyway, for safety reasons on side streets.

 

[innsertnamehere]

It would add to confusion as every other municipality in the GTA uses an unposted 50km/h limit in their urban areas - if Toronto goes to 40km/h unposted a lot of people are going to be speeding without knowing it as most people have in their brains that urban unposted speeds are 50km/h.

It's already a problem where people can't figure out that rural unposted limits are 80km/h - and that should be obvious that small rural sideroads aren't 50km/h.. I can't imagine trying to get everybody to understand different municipal speed limits.

 

[nfitz]

It would add to confusion as every other municipality in the GTA uses an unposted 50km/h limit in their urban areas - if Toronto goes to 40km/h unposted a lot of people are going to be speeding without knowing it as most people have in their brains that urban unposted speeds are 50km/h.

Good point.

Isn't this set provincially?

Perhaps best just to leave alone ...

 

[W. K. Lis]

It would add to confusion as every other municipality in the GTA uses an unposted 50km/h limit in their urban areas - if Toronto goes to 40km/h unposted a lot of people are going to be speeding without knowing it as most people have in their brains that urban unposted speeds are 50km/h.

It's already a problem where people can't figure out that rural unposted limits are 80km/h - and that should be obvious that small rural sideroads aren't 50km/h.. I can't imagine trying to get everybody to understand different municipal speed limits.

It would help if it were province-wide, to reduce on the cost of signage. But then, it would make Doug Ford drive to Queens Park slower, so it won't happen.

 

[Towered]

Not sure if it's related to Vision Zero, but two new traffic lights are being installed on College Street just east of Dufferin, at Gladstone and a block further at Havelock. Like everything else in this city, this was well overdue.

 

[lenaitch]

It's been a few years since I've driven deep into downtown but we went to see Come From Away today (great show BTW). This is probably old news to many of you, but a few random observations (not all involving traffic safety):

• It seems that I missed that blocking a signalized intersection is now mandatory, as is stopping beyond the stop line so a streetcar can't turn.
• The amount of construction is stunning, and it's only March.
• What roads aren't blocked by construction should be - the state of some the main roads is atrocious.
• Given the extent of older small frontage homes in the older neighbourhoods, plus new narrow condos and townhouses built right to the sidewalk, who thought it was a good idea to imposemultiple huge bins for garbage and recycling? The poor folks have no place to put them and there are entire blocks where they are now just part of the streetscape.

Anyway, it was a beautiful sunny day and I'm sure the sun felt good for the folks on the tower-lined streets for the hour or so that it actually fell.

 

[W. K. Lis]

...

• Given the extent of older small frontage homes in the older neighbourhoods, plus new narrow condos and townhouses built right to the sidewalk, who thought it was a good idea to imposemultiple huge bins for garbage and recycling? The poor folks have no place to put them and there are entire blocks where they are now just part of the streetscape.

Anyway, it was a beautiful sunny day and I'm sure the sun felt good for the folks on the tower-lined streets for the hour or so that it actually fell.

How soon people forget. Before the rolling garbage bins and recycling bins, people used their own bins. However, both garbage and recycling were mixed together and were collected TWICE a WEEK. The negative was that EVERYTHING went into them and the garbage trucks would tie up traffic on the local residential streets TWICE a week.

From link.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Tory launches 'Vision Zero 2.0' with aim of lowering speed limits, making safer pedestrian crossings

From link:

Toronto Mayor John Tory announced the next phase of the city's Vision Zero plan on Wednesday, vowing to make the streets safer for pedestrians and cyclists.

Tory said he'll be asking city staff to study the following, to decrease what he called "carnage" in Toronto:

• Lowering speed limits on arterial roads around the city.
• Creating more mid-block crosswalks.
• Installing more red light cameras.
• Putting in photo radar systems to catch speeding drivers.
• Changes to road design.
• Adding more signals to intersections to give pedestrians a head start.

Tory said the "Vision Zero 2.0" plan comes after studying pedestrian deaths in Scarborough, which has the highest ratio of fatal pedestrian collisions in the city.

Of the 41 city-wide pedestrian deaths in 2018, he said, 16 were in Scarborough.

The city found that many people have to walk up to an extra six minutes to reach a protected crossing in many areas of the inner-suburb, something that leads many to jaywalk and put themselves at risk.

"A six-minute walk is quite a hike, especially for our city's senior population or school-aged children," Tory said in the written version of his speech to the Empire Club.

"The reality is, especially if your destination is right across the street, many people will simply not walk the extra 12 minutes and will instead cross mid-block."

Scarborough also has the most high-speed arterial roadway, the city found, which contributes to pedestrian deaths.

Photo radar systems by next school year

Tory said he's also fighting for automated speed enforcement, something that will require provincial approval. Last year, the city tested new photo radar systems around the city and "the results were very concerning."

One driver on Queen Street was going 127 km/hr, he said. On Renforth Drive, where the limit is 40 km/hr, one person was caught driving at 202 km/hr, Tory said.

Tory said he will push staff and the province to ensure that speed cameras are in school and community safety zones by the start of the next school year.

There will also be "significantly" more red light cameras, the mayor said, noting that vehicles speeding through red lights is another major reason people are getting killed.

"Clearly our experience in Scarborough and across the city has indicated we have to do more," said Tory, who says they will consider reducing speed limits on roads across Toronto.

Reducing speed limits and adding more crosswalks involve a relatively "modest" amount of money, Tory said, and can be done fairly quickly after council approval.

This plan still requires a city report and debate at council.

Nine deaths in 2019

Tory's latest comments follow a decade-long trend towards rising numbers of traffic-related deaths on Toronto's roads, according to police data. Pedestrians are the group most often impacted, with more than 330 people killed since 2008 — making up nearly 60 per cent of the overall death toll.

And so far in 2019, police numbers show there have been at least nine pedestrian deaths.

The deaths come despite installation of hundreds of "safety zones" promoting lower speeds, dozens of intersection changes to give pedestrians a head start, and the installation of additional red light cameras, bike lanes, and speed humps.

Jared Kolb, executive director of Cycle Toronto, said Wednesday's announcement gets the city closer to its goal.

Collisions will keep happening, Kolb said, but "speed is the factor that ultimately is leading to the dramatic rise" in people getting killed and seriously injured on Toronto roadways.

Toronto's five-year, $109 million Vision Zero plan launched in 2017, aimed at reducing traffic-related deaths and injuries on city streets.

Still, road safety advocate have questioned the efficacy of the initiative given the high number of people being killed. "The ongoing and increasing traffic deaths indicate it clearly has not been effective," said Yvonne Verlinden, project manager at the Centre for Active Transportation. "It's been a lot of quick fixes and putting up signage ... There was hope that would lead to results and clearly it hasn't." Verlinden said speed limits can have a "huge" impact. "If you get hit by a vehicle moving at 30 kilometres an hour, that's a very different situation from getting hit at 60 kilometres an hour," she said, noting that suburbs have many high-speed roads where people walk. Kolb noted that Vision Zero has been largely disconnected from cycling.

He said the city needs to look at protected bike lanes as a way of creating safer streets for both cyclists and pedestrians.

 

[pman]

Tory launches 'Vision Zero 2.0' with aim of lowering speed limits, making safer pedestrian crossings

From link:

• Lowering speed limits on arterial roads around the city.
• Creating more mid-block crosswalks.
• Installing more red light cameras.
• Putting in photo radar systems to catch speeding drivers.
• Changes to road design.
• Adding more signals to intersections to give pedestrians a head start.

Hang on, that actually sounds like it would make some difference. But...Tory?

 

[11th]

Tory launches 'Vision Zero 2.0' with aim of lowering speed limits, making safer pedestrian crossings

From link:

• Lowering speed limits on arterial roads around the city.
• Creating more mid-block crosswalks.
• Installing more red light cameras.
• Putting in photo radar systems to catch speeding drivers.
• Changes to road design.
• Adding more signals to intersections to give pedestrians a head start.

" "If you get hit by a vehicle moving at 30 kilometres an hour, that's a very different situation from getting hit at 60 kilometres an hour," she said, noting that suburbs have many high-speed roads where people walk. Kolb noted that Vision Zero has been largely disconnected from cycling."

I don't get the point of making the 30km/h vs. 60km/h comparison. If a street is signed at 60km/h, it probably should not be lowered to 30km/h (based on the street's design and function as only arterials gets signed as 60km/h). Now study points to < 30km/h as the non-lethal speed. Does that also mean it makes little difference to lower the speed from 60km to 50km/h?
On the other hand, lowering the speed from 40km/h to 30km/h does make big difference in terms of pedestrian safety.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I don't get the point of making the 30km/h vs. 60km/h comparison. If a street is signed at 60km/h, it probably should not be lowered to 30km/h (based on the street's design and function as only arterials gets signed as 60km/h). Now study points to < 30km/h as the non-lethal speed. Does that also mean it makes little difference to lower the speed from 60km to 50km/h?
On the other hand, lowering the speed from 40km/h to 30km/h does make big difference in terms of pedestrian safety.

The roads need to be DESIGNED for a lower speed. What good is a POSTED speed limit on a road, if the road is DESIGNED for a higher speed. What good is a slow speed limit sign, but if they have wide traffic lanes and have wide corners, the motorists will still speed.

Traffic lanes could be narrowed by putting in bicycle lanes. However, that would upset the automobile gods and their disciples.

 

[pman]

The roads need to be DESIGNED for a lower speed. What good is a POSTED speed limit on a road, if the road is DESIGNED for a higher speed. What good is a slow speed limit sign, but if they have wide traffic lanes and have wide corners, the motorists will still speed.

Traffic lanes could be narrowed by putting in bicycle lanes. However, that would upset the automobile gods and their disciples.

Totally agree. But assuming that will never happen Because Toronto (trademark pending), serious automated enforcement would be an improvement over the free for all we have now.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Totally agree. But assuming that will never happen Because Toronto (trademark pending), serious automated enforcement would be an improvement over the free for all we have now.

Photo radar? The province may not acquiesce even if Tory wanted it. I will believe it when I see it.

AoD