[Northern Light]

I wonder which came first, the road or the site selection for the school.

That goes back through decades of urban planning and property management strategies by many school boards, some pre-amalgamation. The reasons may have made sense at the time, but the one thing you can be sure of is we are looking at things through different lenses today. It’s just history. The best we can do is play the ball where it lies.

It demonstrates how we have laid out our whole urban infrastructure in a way that isn’t going to work.

- Paul

The current school came into being in 1964; the road connection (Danforth to Kingston Road was decades earlier). But I'm not sure how the road was configured at the time (ie. number of lanes/median etc.)

I was curious about the same thing myself and did some digging yesterday.

 

[rbt]

Gosh, no 30 km/hr roads in New Zealand?

New Zealand isn't particularly pedestrian friendly with their rules.

For example, a pedestrian crossing at an intersection with a stop-sign is required to make eye-contact with the stopped driver prior to crossing. If the driver is watching traffic in a different direction than the pedestrians location, the pedestrian must wait for the driver to find a hole in traffic and depart. In short, a pedestrian walking in-front of a stopped vehicle is at fault if the vehicle moves and hits them.

Edit: I should mention that "I looked but didn't see them" is a legitimate excuse on the south island. Very very low light pollution also means a pedestrian in reflective clothing can still be completely dark at night.

 

[Mihairokov]

We sorely need councillors who are more willing to work for and with citizens that don't drive. Incredibly predictable that nothing will be done despite the recent string of deaths and incidents.

 

[gabe]

Caught doing double the speed limit in the city or on the phone. It should automatically be six months loss of car and driver's license. No warnings!

Or caught playing the flute

Driver in Burlington caught playing flute with both hands, police say​

Driver in Burlington caught playing flute with both hands, police say

It goes without saying that both hands should be on the wheel when driving, but police in Burlington say they caught a flautist flouting that rule on Wednesday.

www.cp24.com

 

[11th]

The current school came into being in 1964; the road connection (Danforth to Kingston Road was decades earlier). But I'm not sure how the road was configured at the time (ie. number of lanes/median etc.)

I was curious about the same thing myself and did some digging yesterday.

Can't tell the number of lanes, but the median was there.
Aerial Photographs 1947 - City of Toronto

 

[ShonTron]

Can't tell the number of lanes, but the median was there.
Aerial Photographs 1947 - City of Toronto

Work was started by the Department of Highways in the late 1930s, soon after the Scarboro Radial line east of Birchmount Avenue was torn up. Highway 2 was widened to four lanes, with the flyover to Danforth Avenue (Highway 5) built around then. This was designed to be a high-capacity entry to Toronto from the east, just as the QEW was being built in the west.

High schools are often located by arterial roads, which is good for transit access as they normally have larger catchment areas. I don't blame the school's location, but clearly the intersection of Danforth and Birchmount should have been designed for slower speeds, especially as the city has had control over it since Metro days.

 

[evandyk]

Of course John Tory blames individual drivers, rather than accepting that he and city council could stop the carnage if they want to.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/teen-girl-fatal-pedestrian-collision-identified-1.6219028

 

[tiffer24]

It's a real mystery that no one can figure out. And there's absolutely nothing we can do about it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1451382539797639180

 

[MisterF]

Of course John Tory blames individual drivers, rather than accepting that he and city council could stop the carnage if they want to.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/teen-girl-fatal-pedestrian-collision-identified-1.6219028

It's all part of the scam of personal responsibility that big business has been pushing for a century. Why make streets less car oriented and safer when we can blame individual drivers and pedestrians? Why be forced to use less plastic packaging when we can blame individuals for not recycling properly? Why improve public health through community design when we can blame individuals for their sedentary lifestyles? The car and oil lobbies are particularly good at this. It works especially well in cultures that value personal liberty and are suspicious of collective action, which is probably why it's strongest in the US.

 

[allengeorge]

It's all part of the scam of personal responsibility that big business has been pushing for a century.

In all fairness, it’s the city in this case. But the reason is the same: to avoid having to make systemic changes. If you can blame individuals, then there’s no reason for you to narrow roads, try to improve modeshare, push for more speeding and red light cameras, or… It’s all “out of your hands” and all you can do is “educate drivers”.

 

[TossYourJacket]

In all fairness, it’s the city in this case. But the reason is the same: to avoid having to make systemic changes. If you can blame individuals, then there’s no reason for you to narrow roads, try to improve modeshare, push for more speeding and red light cameras, or… It’s all “out of your hands” and all you can do is “educate drivers”.

Based on the past, they aren't even going to "educate drivers". They'll just hand out more neon armbands for pedestrians because it's obviously exclusively their fault they keep dying.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The fix for Birchmount and Danforth is easy and quick. On Monday morning put out concrete barriers so it's only one lane each way. Reduce the speed to 40 km an hour because it's a school zone. Interestingly, so far the van driver has not been charged with dangerous driving. I wonder if the victim was cycling on the walk path or crossed against the light - not victim blaming, but curious as to the facts.

Today I was driving south on Sackville St. towards Gerrard. I had the green but I always slow here because I’ve seen trucks run the red. Just as I approach Gerrard a cyclist crosses against the red light directly in my path. I stop and toot the horn, and the young woman cyclist looks bewildered and carries on. I’m not sure how the road and this intersection could be made safer.

 

[crs1026]

In all fairness, it’s the city in this case. But the reason is the same: to avoid having to make systemic changes. If you can blame individuals, then there’s no reason for you to narrow roads, try to improve modeshare, push for more speeding and red light cameras, or… It’s all “out of your hands” and all you can do is “educate drivers”.

It took us sixty plus years to build all the suburban arterial roads (I’m counting as from postwar expansion) and we don’t have the means to fix them all quickly.

What I wonder is whether it needs to take sixty years to redesign them. What’s a reasonable pace and how quickly could they be done, and what budget would that entail ? How can these be prioritised - an as-they-need work strategy won’t clear the risks in the most expedient way.

I am quite happy to see enforcement used ahead of more concrete redesign (double meaning intended). Suppose there were a general speed limit through signalled intersections of 50 km/hr on arterial roads. Accelerate between intersections if you please, but you must slow through intersections. Enforce that with cameras….. current red light cameras only scratch the surface because if you speed up and race the yellow, you beat the red and are not be detected, but your driving style is equally aggressive. Perhaps a hybrid speed/red light camera could detect drivers accelerating on a yellow. Maybe this is where more radar traps should be

I recall (but don’t have the data in front of me) as to how many pedestrian incidents happen at intersections, but I’m sure it’s enough to justify a focus. Having to watch one’s speed at every signalled intersection might be a drip-drip-drip reminder that would lead to other pennies dropping.

- Paul

 

[DirectionNorth]

It took us sixty plus years to build all the suburban arterial roads (I’m counting as from postwar expansion) and we don’t have the means to fix them all quickly.

There are temporary solutions we can use to slow them down that cost almost nothing - flexiposts, tree planting (where possible) and sidewalk widening are all possible choices.

My preference would be to see permanent measures implemented on every road resurfacing/reconstruction. While I don't believe that we can go to zero tomorrow, I also think that the city can and should be doing more to protect pedestrians, at a relatively low cost (see above).

What I wonder is whether it needs to take sixty years to redesign them. What’s a reasonable pace and how quickly could they be done, and what budget would that entail ? How can these be prioritized - an as-they-need work strategy won’t clear the risks in the most expedient way.

But it would be easiest, since the road will be rebuilt/paved anyways. I wonder how often repaving occurs. Of course, accelerating work at problematic/potentially problematic locations would also be required. I'm sure there are databases somewhere with information about what causes pedestrian deaths the most, removing those causes would also be accelerated.

I am quite happy to see enforcement used ahead of more concrete redesign (double meaning intended). Suppose there were a general speed limit through signalled intersections of 50 km/hr on arterial roads. Accelerate between intersections if you please, but you must slow through intersections. Enforce that with cameras….. current red light cameras only scratch the surface because if you speed up and race the yellow, you beat the red and are not be detected, but your driving style is equally aggressive. Perhaps a hybrid speed/red light camera could detect drivers accelerating on a yellow. Maybe this is where more radar traps should be.

I agree enforcement is necessary, but people will drive at whatever speed the road is designed for. Since when have people actually driven 100 km/h or less (when traffic is clear) on the 400s?

I recall (but don’t have the data in front of me) as to how many pedestrian incidents happen at intersections, but I’m sure it’s enough to justify a focus. Having to watch one’s speed at every signalled intersection might be a drip-drip-drip reminder that would lead to other pennies dropping.

- Paul

It all leads back to design - if we design arterials for 80 km/h, people will drive that fast.

 

[marcus_a_j]

The fix for Birchmount and Danforth is easy and quick. On Monday morning put out concrete barriers so it's only one lane each way. Reduce the speed to 40 km an hour because it's a school zone. Interestingly, so far the van driver has not been charged with dangerous driving. I wonder if the victim was cycling on the walk path or crossed against the light - not victim blaming, but curious as to the facts.

Today I was driving south on Sackville St. towards Gerrard. I had the green but I always slow here because I’ve seen trucks run the red. Just as I approach Gerrard a cyclist crosses against the red light directly in my path. I stop and toot the horn, and the young woman cyclist looks bewildered and carries on. I’m not sure how the road and this intersection could be made safer.

The driver was charged with careless driving causing death and making an unsafe turn. From what I understand the driver was turning left from Birchmount to go EB on Danforth and hit the girl while she was walking in the crosswalk. It seems they both had a walk/green signal. If this was indeed what happened, the design of Danforth had no bearing on the incident. The driver was negligent in making sure they were clear to make the turn and it cost a young girl her life.

That being said, I’m all in favour of reducing Danforth to two lanes with 40km/hr speed limits from Kingston Rd to Warden. The WB lanes would be converted to a multi-use trail and green space. West of Warden would have a similar design as Danforth is west of Dawes.