[urbanflight]

The problem with saying that we should do it now to save money is their is no plans in place yet to do all of this and also no finding to do it yes we can say that they should just divert the funds that they have for maintaining it to take it down. Again the problem is there is no plans in place yet to do it, also city council would have to approve it and they are on break until September as far as I know. I honestly don't really see any plans being anywhere near ready for a few years at least and by then we could have a city council who wants to do something completely different.

It is possible to deploy bus lanes pretty quickly, to offer a good transit alternative to folks that currently rely on individual cars. Same for bike lanes that can be installed very quickly.

Well, some city councils have already a plan for a robust Bus priority lane network, they want more bus lanes on top of the ones below, and they want them to be deployed more quickly, but it's being hold back in the city council.

For example:

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

People seem to forget that not everyone who uses the Gardner expressway are from Toronto. Improving Toronto transit only helps people who already live here. Unless we want to build large public parking lot for people who live outside of the city to park in and then take public transit to their final destination, I don't really see that happening.

 

[Northern Light]

People in this thread keep taking it off course.

This is not a discussion about removing the entire Gardiner Expressway.

That project does not exist, even conceptually.

This is only about what to do with the section east of Jarvis to Carlaw/DVP.

Lets please stick to that.

When we do, the reason removal is/was an option is that most traffic from the west, on the Gardiner exits by Jarvis. Most traffic from the north exits the DVP at Eastern/Richmond/Adelaide.

The residual section of the DVP Gardiner, between Eastern and Jarvis is what's in play, and it is below capacity.

This section is overwhelmingly about through-traffic, of which there is comparatively little; along with some local traffic from Leslieville/Beach to these roads.

Again, no one is taking down the Gardiner west of Jarvis; that may be a wonderful discussion for a fantasy thread, but not for this one.

The replacement capacity demand for this section is relatively low.

This section of Lakeshore is also underutilized (gets busy west of Jarvis).

The debate needs to be focused on whether this portion of the Gardiner needs to/should remain standing; and what any alternative may look like and cost.

Many of us here favour a boulevard for this section, based on very practical matters like upfront construction cost; maintenance costs, land capture for development and/or parks purposes, appearance, and environmental benefits.

If someone does not favour it, so be it.

Though its surely just as on that party as on proponents of a boulevard to show a cost-benefit justification for their choice; this being a case where exact status-quo is not an option due to aging/poor condition infrastructure.

No project plan is perfect; a boulevard will not make all car/truck traffic magically disappear; nor will a rebuilt expressway mean free-flowing traffic at all times that makes life stupendously better than were it not there.

Both options will allow for a car or truck to get from the DVP to the Gardiner and vice versa.

One may be slightly slower (by 2 minutes); and allow a more scenic drive, while benefiting pedestrians, cyclists, and land reclamation.

The other may afford a slightly shorter drive time, but make the area somewhat less pleasant aesthetically and at considerably higher cost.

Take your choice, advocate for it; but lets not get lost what's being discussed, please.

 

[W. K. Lis]

People seem to forget that not everyone who uses the Gardner expressway are from Toronto. Improving Toronto transit only helps people who already live here. Unless we want to build large public parking lot for people who live outside of the city to park in and then take public transit to their final destination, I don't really see that happening.

That is also why tolls should be imposed on the Gardiner Expressway, since currently only 416 property taxes pay for it.

You do know they are improving GO Transit to improve the commute from the 905 into and out of the 416? (They're even building bicycle parking spaces at some GO Stations.)

See link.

At GO Transit, we have a lot on the go — especially when it comes to construction.

Over the next ten years, we’re doubling the number of train trips during rush hour and quadrupling the number of train trips outside of rush hour and on weekends.

More trains will bring more people to GO Transit and we need to be ready for that increase. So, we’re modernizing our stations and building new ones, boosting our infrastructure and providing more ways to access stations. And of course we need to maintain a strong bus network as well.

 

[drum118]

At least 25% of all drivers will never use transit in their life time and willing to pay more to get rid of other drivers to make their travel faster and less stressful.

Construction workers need to drive as they can't haul the equipment they need to use on a job site since it too much to carry on transit or not allow because what it is. Since they come from outside of the 416, transit may start when they have to leave for work or stop before they get to their system. They you have doctors, police and TTC drivers from outside the 416 that need to drive to the downtown.

In the next few years, the Jarvis off ramp will be remove and replace with a Yonge Ramp like Simcoe. This will require the removal of the eastbound Bay ramp.

As noted, not all drivers going downtown and using it as a bypass of the 401 or another part of Toronto. About 30,000 vehicles use the east section and maybe 25% going downtown. Neither number justify keeping it up and wasting $$ in maintaining it. There has been times in the past I have used the Gardiner/DVP as a bypass and not going to/from home.

People will bitch that they are loosing 5 minutes of travel time if it became a city street, but there are places where a highway ends and the street are miles longer than what than the Gardiner and deal with it.

 

[Allandale25]

Isn't it too late to change anything now? Haven't the contracts been signed? I guess they could just pay any cancellation fees?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1288624750860918784

 

[Northern Light]

Isn't it too late to change anything now? Haven't the contracts been signed? I guess they could just pay any cancellation fees?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1288624750860918784

To my understanding; someone will correct me if I'm wrong; the contracts that have been let are for the refurbishment of what's standing now; not for construction of the hybrid; though some design costs there are sunk.

There is, whether we change course or not, some wasted money on refurbing east of Jarvis; which is maddening, because its the result of having delayed decisions and kicked them down the road; just like the money spent on keeping the SRT going because we couldn't settle on its replacement.

 

[Towered]

Covid might have given us the perfect opportunity to kill this thing.

 

[achender]

Is there any chance they will abandon the hybrid part of the hybrid option and just try and patch up whats there? Was that ever costed out? I hope it was either impractical or more expensive.

 

[TRONto]

Reducing roads can cause traffic to ‘Evaporate’

I feel the summary of what happened to the traffic is not detailed enough. I would like to see examples with percentages of how the traffic changed. I don't know if it would even be feasible, but I feel the summary given is a bit hand wavy. My intuition is that people changed the places that they normally go to. So they would do grocery shopping closer to their home, go to the restaurant that are close together home, essentially switch over to places that are easier to get to. Although there would be too many confounding factors I wonder what the business Revenue changes would look like for the affected areas.

 

[achender]

The shiny new on-ramp at Jarvis looks near completion to my untrained eye.

 

[DSC]

The City has just announce that Aecon have now prepared all the 387 deck panels for the Gardiner work from Cherry to Lower Jarvis. The last one had its poured around the (already fabricated) metal beams in the white tent on 10 September. There are still some to be installed in the yard outside the tents but they still seem to be on track to finish the eastern section by Christmas. Not sure if they will then take some time off and move further west or ???

 

[W. K. Lis]

If only Toronto followed the proper way like in other cities...

 

[Rainforest]

^ Utrect is a small city with population about ~360,000. It is much easier to do without expressways around there.

Plus they have very decent public transit options. They have regional rail that beats our best projections for RER, they have sneltram lines, buses, and a system of dedicated bicycle routes. Good for them but that's not an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

[W. K. Lis]

^ Utrect is a small city with population about ~360,000. It is much easier to do without expressways around there.

Plus they have very decent public transit options. They have regional rail that beats our best projections for RER, they have sneltram lines, buses, and a system of dedicated bicycle routes. Good for them but that's not an apples-to-apples comparison.

"The Randstad (Dutch pronunciation: [ˈrɑntstɑt]) is a megalopolis in the central-western Netherlands consisting primarily of the four largest Dutch cities (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht) and their surrounding areas." Megalopolis population is 8,219,380. GTA population is 5.928 million.