[adma]

1970s ... Montreal was still removing housing in the 1980s for the Ville Marie extension ... that they still haven't built.

Montreal having an urban reform movement is one thing; said movement having political power is another. Remember that they still had to deal with the increasingly entropic fact of a Mayor Drapeau well into the 80s, while we had already gone through that Crombie/Sewell trip to the point where even Art Eggleton couldn't exactly return wholesale to pre-Crombie ways without being massacred...

 

[Chuck]

The majority of drivers on the Gardiner are from Mississauga or Oakville. It was definitely a mistake for Harris to download the QEW (from 427 to the Humber) to Toronto, saying it is a local road. If the Gardiner is to be kept, then either the Ontario government or the 905 should help pay to maintain it.
Maybe tolls, with rebates for Toronto residents, maybe in order, if we wish to keep the DVP ramp.

I agree that the highway should not have been downloaded, but disagree with your logic. To play devil's advocate, why should it be the origin (905 area), rather than the destination (job in downtown Toronto) that determines what area someone is "local" to? By your logic, Toronto taxpayers should maintain the 404 in Richmond Hill because most of the people who work in Beaver Creek come from Toronto.

At the end of the day, GTA highways are used by the citizens of dozens of cities, which is why it's completely unfair to place the burden of maintenance on any single municipality. Why should City A ever have to pay for roads that serve an employment centre located in City B?

 

[Whoaccio]

At the end of the day, GTA highways are used by the citizens of dozens of cities, which is why it's completely unfair to place the burden of maintenance on any single municipality. Why should City A ever have to pay for roads that serve an employment centre located in City B?

Of course, the most logical solution to this moral hazard is to simply privatize the highways and let their users pay for their upkeep. It is the fairest and best solution, from just about every stand point.

 

[lordmandeep]

privatize the highways

after the 407 fiasco literally destroyed Tory Support in the 905 for like a decade, no way Dalton or the Tories are going to do that and the NDP want to nationalize everything for crying out loud!!

 

[Whoaccio]

after the 407 fiasco literally destroyed Tory Support in the 905 for like a decade, no way Dalton or the Tories are going to do that and the NDP want to nationalize everything for crying out loud!!

The 407 was a boondoggle of GreenShift proportions. The basic idea was bullet proof, but was delivered in such a hackneyed and compromised manner that it was rightly derided. Most obviously, the province puled a SkyDome and sold off their investment for pennies on the dollar. Private bidders knew they had Harris et al in a vice, and screwed them. By contrast, the DVP is already a busy as all hell and a proven success. Ditto for almost all other highways in the GTA. If the province decided to revisit the concept, it would be doing so from a position of strength.

The second most glaring fault with the 407 was the Tories' absolute inability to explain why the move was beneficial. For all intents and purposes, it looked like they were carrying out a fire-sale of public assets to cover their own poor management. Unmentioned went the positive effects on travel times due to decreased congestion and the decreased cost to the public.

 

[Disparishun]

Of course, the most logical solution to this moral hazard is to simply privatize the highways and let their users pay for their upkeep. It is the fairest and best solution, from just about every stand point.

Well, we've already implemented that solution for the TTC ... !

 

[Glen]

The majority of drivers on the Gardiner are from Mississauga or Oakville.

Where do you get that from?

 

[Automation Gallery]

Where do you get that from?

I agree that its not fair to say that most of the commuters on the Gardiner Expy.are from a specific area.I believe there are many people driving this strech that are also from the GTA,Rexdale,Weston,Miliken Agincourt etc.

 

[lordmandeep]

looks someone forgot the 427 and the DVP connect to the Gardiner as well.

 

[Glen]

The Cordon Count, looking at the Toronto / Peel border show little difference in direction of flow. Add a natural bias towards Toronto in the AM peak because of the Hospitals/Courts and other visits and they are pretty much equal.

That might explain why the Gardiner eastbound from the 427 is busier (IMO) than westbound in the afternoon.

 

[Towered]

With all the recent talk of fast-tracking the DRL, in addition to the planned electrification of the GO Lakeshore line, arguments in favour of retaining the Gardiner in the next 20 years or so will stand on very shaky ground indeed, particularly with its advanced age at that point. And once those major transit projects are in service, I don't think we'll be kissing just the Jarvis to Don Valley section goodbye - I'll bet that the entire elevated stretch will be demolished. There simply will be no justification for keeping it. Good riddance.

 

[spider]

With all the recent talk of fast-tracking the DRL, in addition to the planned electrification of the GO Lakeshore line, arguments in favour of retaining the Gardiner in the next 20 years or so will stand on very shaky ground indeed, particularly with its advanced age at that point. And once those major transit projects are in service, I don't think we'll be kissing just the Jarvis to Don Valley section goodbye - I'll bet that the entire elevated stretch will be demolished. There simply will be no justification for keeping it. Good riddance.

That means all of those trucks will jump on the GO train because it is electrified?

 

[Dilla]

That means all of those trucks will jump on the GO train because it is electrified?

I think it means all those trucks will have less cars in their way on the grade level road that will be there instead, and if it takes them 3 minutes longer, so be it.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Electrified? maybe in 20-30 years.

 

[BMO]

i'm surprised that no one has tried to put forward the option of maybe putting the Gardiner underground lol that's the first thing I thought of to please both sides of the argument.