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Back to something serious.

Gardiner Expressway: Developer First Gulf comes up with new compromise

City committee defers a decision on the fate of the eastern expressway, in part to explore a developer’s proposal that would realign its connection to the Don Valley Parkway.


From The Star, at this link:

Why is it that within days after the EA is completed, there is a proposal to replace the Gardiner with prefabricated components to speed the process and this First Gulf proposal to realign the Eastern Gardiner. How can we rely on the EA, when two options that appear to be favoured by some pretty prominent people were not even considered.

I also wonder what the significance of the committee decision to defer the vote. Is it that they want more information so they can find a way of saving the Gardiner, or is it to improve the re-election chances of the pro-demolition Councillors so they are not on record as supporting demolition. Then days after the election they can bring in their preference by stealth instead of informing voters where they stand.
 
Why is it that within days after the EA is completed, there is a proposal to replace the Gardiner with prefabricated components to speed the process and this First Gulf proposal to realign the Eastern Gardiner. How can we rely on the EA, when two options that appear to be favoured by some pretty prominent people were not even considered.

It's nonsense. It happens all the time. People don't get that an EA is where this has to be fleshed out, and when an EA provides a recommendation they don't like, they come out kicking and screaming and say 'Hey! I have a better idea!'.

This is why some things drag on forever, no one respects the timelines of EAs, and then we end up arguing about it forever, long after the 30-day comment period ends. There are exceptions to the rule, but this isn't one of them.
 
Why is it that within days after the EA is completed...

Completed? It still has a another year or more to go before completion. What they presented was the "what should we study in the upcoming EA" report.

They've decided to visit only 2-car dealerships because the other 2 in town don't have the cars in an acceptable price range; its still a long way from actually having a vehicle purchased.

The construction technique change (budget increase request) is for the Western 80% of Gardiner that is not a part of this EA. The section from Dufferin to Jarvis will be rebuilt more or less as it exists today over the next decade.
 
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Completed? It still has a another year or more to go before completion. What they presented was the "what should we study in the upcoming EA" report.

They've decided to visit only 2-car dealerships because the other 2 in town don't have the cars in an acceptable price range; its still a long way from actually having a vehicle purchased.

The construction technique change (budget increase request) is for the Western 80% of Gardiner that is not a part of this EA. The section from Dufferin to Jarvis will be rebuilt more or less as it exists today over the next decade.

Which begs the question of why aren't they just studying the entire damn Gardiner in the EA...smh
 
Which begs the question of why aren't they just studying the entire damn Gardiner in the EA...smh

I would bet it has a lot to do with practical thinking. By most accounts, the eastern portion is less travelled and less "vital"....so those people looking to get the city considering a change from the current think that is where they might get some traction.

If the choice of tear-down/replace/rebuild was currently in play for the entire Gardiner...the tear down option would get very limited support.
 
Which begs the question of why aren't they just studying the entire damn Gardiner in the EA...smh

It's a Waterfront Toronto initiative. They're studying it in the area they control.

They did some fiddling with Lake Shore designs in the west, but Gardiner wasn't looked at other than consideration for a couple of pedestrian bridges.
 
Alright criticism accepted. I apologize, I will probably try to tone back my sarcasm in general. :)

In terms of reducing suburban commute times into downtown, I personally think the best shot at that is significantly improving the GO system, and integrating it better with local transit, not building more highways on top of other highways.

Apology accepted, and agreed on the transit idea, if only the city would stop bickering and agree on a plan.
 
Why is it that within days after the EA is completed, there is a proposal to replace the Gardiner with prefabricated components to speed the process and this First Gulf proposal to realign the Eastern Gardiner. How can we rely on the EA, when two options that appear to be favoured by some pretty prominent people were not even considered.

I also wonder what the significance of the committee decision to defer the vote. Is it that they want more information so they can find a way of saving the Gardiner, or is it to improve the re-election chances of the pro-demolition Councillors so they are not on record as supporting demolition. Then days after the election they can bring in their preference by stealth instead of informing voters where they stand.

I could be wrong but I don't get the impression First Gulf prefers their proposal to full takedown of Eastern Gardiner. I think they sensed that the takedown option was not getting political traction and they rather creatively came up with a way to prevent a vote on this before the election. Remember First Gulf is part of Great Gulf, developer of Monde, and when Monde was released Great Gulf was coming out in favour of takedown.
 
Great infographic from Waterfront Toronto illustrating how many people use the TTC, Go Transit and cars to get to downtown, and how many of those actually use this part of the Gardiner

http://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/uplo..._infographic_01___modal_split_in_2031_2_1.png

gardiner_east___infographic_01___modal_split_in_2031_2_1.png
 
Great infographic from Waterfront Toronto illustrating how many people use the TTC, Go Transit and cars to get to downtown, and how many of those actually use this part of the Gardiner

Facts will not stop certain moron councillors from shouting "war on cars".
 
Facts will not stop certain moron councillors from shouting "war on cars".

These councillors need to be called out by both the media and fellow councillors. Hopefully someone has the balls to do so.
 
See article on
Building the Gardiner Expy

by Mike Filey, at this link.

The Way We Were
Building the Gardiner Expy.

2
1297246512053_AUTHOR_PHOTO.jpg

By Mike Filey First posted: Saturday, March 08, 2014 04:00 PM EST | Updated: Saturday, March 08, 2014 10:43 AM EST
1297535124011_ORIGINAL.jpg
A full half century after this aerial view was taken by a Toronto Telegram newspaper photographer that shows construction of the extension of the Gardiner Expy. from its York St. intersection to the new Don Valley Pkwy. at Bloor St., politicians, planners and the public discuss the future of this very stretch of the expressway. The large complex at the centre of the photo is the Canadian Iron Foundry (Canron) factory on the west side of Cherry St. south of Lake Shore Blvd. East. The numerous white storage tanks are those of B-A gasoline (renamed Gulf in 1969). At the top right is the Keating Channel at the mouth of the Don River and Villiers St. in the Ashbridge’s Bay Terminal District (now the Port Lands).
TORONTO - Seems that the only thing that’s taking longer to decide than did the initial question posed back in the 1940s as to whether or not to build the Frederick G. Gardiner Expy., is the present-day question “Now what to do with the east end of that same beloved/hated expressway?” Let me explain.

With the Second World War finally over, tires and gasoline soon came of the “rationed” list. And a war-weary public and thousands of returning soldiers, sailors and airmen began looking over the list of shiny new cars that were now rolling off the assembly lines at factories where war items such as guns, tanks and planes had been built and were, thankfully, no longer needed.

But the return of the motoring public gave Toronto officials cause for concern.

City streets and the few highways we had in place had not been improved upon for decades. Plans began to surface that would see a much modified north-south Spadina Ave. and Spadina Rd. widened right through the middle of the city all the way from Front St. north to St. Clair Ave. And what about reviving the 1920s plan for the Don Valley Speedway that would run from the Ashbridge’s Bay area following the river to north of the Prince Edward Viaduct where it would branch northeasterly and northwesterly giving two new ways into and out of the downtown. And a third route, from the Humber River into downtown Toronto which was identified simply as the Lakeshore Expy.

Officials felt that it was too soon to be asking the electorate for $9 million to complete the waterfront and Spadina projects. That Don Valley concept was simply put back to bed. It would reawaken for another couple of decades in a slightly different form.

Time passed and the traffic got worse and worse.

Finally in the spring of 1954, under the direction of Metro Chairman Fred Gardiner the old Lakeshore Expy. plan was revived only now as a 9.5 mile, six-lane, 50 mph, $50 million super highway with three miles of it roadway out over Lake Ontario plus parking for 1,500 cars under the mainland raised sections. WOW!!

As exciting as this concept appeared it had a built in flaw. While it would be built in sections over the period 1958-1963 the east end of the new Frederick G. Gardiner Expressway (a name that Metro Council agreed would replace the original Lakeshore Expy. title) was seen as a dagger at the throats of those living near the end of the expressway that was designed to end (or begin depending on whether you were coming or going) at Woodbine Ave.

Discussions continued and it wasn’t until that cold November day in early 1964 when the ribbon was cut and the Gardiner was finally extended past the off ramp at York St. and around the bend over the lower part of the Don River to hook up with the newly built stretch of the Don Valley Parkway that had reached as far south as Bloor St. that the heat was finally off the long traffic-suffering people in the east end of the city.

Oh, and I just found an interesting quote from the Metro Roads Commissioner George Grant who in his speech to the Electric Club of Toronto (is there still such an organization?) on Nov. 21, 1962 said, “The $95-million Gardiner Expy. will be obsolete 50 years from now.” Mr Grant also went on to surmise that the expressway would not be needed because by the year 2012 every family would have its own private rocket and launching pad.
 
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These councillors need to be called out by both the media and fellow councillors. Hopefully someone has the balls to do so.

They forget that the traffic will get much, much worse on other roads as well, such as 401, Front, Richmond/Adelaide, King, Jarvis/Mt Pleasant etc. Tearing down a section of one of only two highways into the downtown of a major city is absurd. This should be obvious when the DVP was closed due to flooding between Bloor and Gardiner last year, or when lanes to the George Washington Bridge were closed in Fort Lee, or the traffic problems at Eglinton/Allen caused by not finishing the Spadina Expressway. Also the claim that there will be "only" 10 minutes delay assumes that the downtown relief line and GO improvements and waterfront streetcars will be built, of course if Toronto is crazy enough to replace Gardiner with 24/7 traffic congestion on Lake Shore then there will be absolutely no transit improvements at all, and they are probably underestimating the amount of redevelopment in the Gardiner/DVP area which would put more cars on that stretch of the Gardiner. I'm sure if we did a "traffic study" and closed the Gardiner temporarily we would find this out the hard way. Toronto has just about the worst traffic of any city in a developed country and this is largely because of series of bad transportation decisions over the years like building only half the Spadina Expressway, not building real subways because Miller and left wing councillors are extremely anti-subway and because of Mike Harris cuts, neglecting the GO train system, not widening the DVP between Eglinton and 401, privatizing the 407 and jacking up tolls to exorbitant levels, and raising commercial tax rates to absurd levels causing companies to move their headquarters to Mississauga (though bad weather in the winter is also a major cause).
 

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