[afransen]

Trucking is priced at "$/km". A toll would increase this. If tolls weren't a factor and the time savings offset the toll costs, then how come to this day we see most trucks opting to get bogged down on the 401 instead of paying the toll to fly across the 407?

This is true, but the 407 tolls are very high for trucks.

 

[Bojaxs]

o you think that would actually fix the 401? Those are laudable ideas, but the reality is that the 401 would remain in a state of daily failure.

What's the point of attempting to "toll" drivers off the 401 if you're not going to first setup viable transit alternatives? You're just going to clog up the side roads with car traffic.

 

[afransen]

What's the point of attempting to "toll" drivers off the 401 if you're not going to first setup viable transit alternatives? You're just going to clog up the side roads with car traffic.

There are some people on the 401 who do have transit alternatives.

People can carpool (I know people who carpool to share the cost of the 407).

People can travel at different times to take advantage of lower rates off peak.

People can make different decisions about where they live and work.

By your logic, congestion charges would not be effective because those people already had transit alternatives to get into core areas. Yet congestion charges reduce traffic despite no new transit infrastructure being offered.

I think you are simply incorrect in assuming that existing travel patterns are immutable unless we build billion dollar infrastructure that takes a decade to deliver. Organization before electronics before concrete.

 

[Bojaxs]

People can travel at different times to take advantage of lower rates off peak.

Not if you have a fixed work schedule.

People can make different decisions about where they live and work.

"Just pack up and move."

If only it were that easy. I would have moved out of my apartment long ago. But unfortunately that would mean my rent doubling. I'm currently stuck in my apartment due to the current rental/ real estate market, and so are a lot of other people.

"Get a new job"

In this job market? Good luck! My blue collar job in Brampton pays more than any white collar/ IT job I had in DT Toronto.

 

[afransen]

You only need some people to make different decisions. We don't need the 401 to be empty.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Don't we already pay a toll for our highways in the form of the "gas tax"?

...

Electric vehicles would then use the highways for "free", since they use electricity to power them, not petroleum.

Hybrid vehicles would however pay some "gas tax", but not 100%.

Also, the "gas tax" does not pay for city streets, since it is paid by property taxes. Only provincial highways were supposed to be paid by "gas taxes", but with hybrid and electric vehicles that revenue source is diminishing. So the revenue will be general revenue (sales taxes, incomes taxes, etc.), which means everyone will paying for the highways, even if you don't drive any motor vehicle.

Tolls would be better since it will be paid by those who use them.

 

[afransen]

I think the idea of how 'roads are paid for' is a red herring. Road tolls are not about drawing a dotted line from those revenues to the construction and maintenance of roadways. Tolls are useful for managing the dramatic mismatch in the demand and supply of highways. We can't practically add more more highway capacity in the built up part of the GTA. So demand will continue to ever increasingly excess the capacity, leading to worse congestion. Tolls would be useful for reducing that congestion even if they took all the money raised from tolls, piled it up and lit it on fire. Fortunately, they can be added to general revenues to provide greater benefit than that.