waterloowarrior
Senior Member
AADT also drops off about 15% after 25, although the MTO traffic data online is from 2016
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- Thread starter salmonz
- Start date
Haljackey
Active Member
I still find it hard to believe there is going to be a collector-express system west of the 407. Both the 407 and Winston Churchill overpasses were never designed with this intent, and I thought the start of the complex freeway would always begin between Winston Churchill and Mississauga Road.
But as we all see, a new collector system is going in west of the 407. I find this one to be relatively short and it still boggles my mind why they are doing it. Ideally collectors should service at least 3 interchanges to be of value, but since the (relatively new) James Snow Parkway overpass also cannot support a collector-express system below it, it's going to just service two interchanges- Trafalgar and the 407. It would have been nice to push it through here and maybe Martin Street as well, but that would requite more overpass replacements. On Google Maps you can still see new the Martin Street overpass under construction, which implies that even now collectors are not considered anywhere west of this current widening project.
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I'll be driving this stretch of the 401 for the first time since February 2020 on Saturday (flying out of Pearson... wish me luck lol) - kind of looking forward to seeing the transformation with my own eyes. Hope traffic ain't too bad.
drum118
Superstar
The problem going from collector to 5 lanes will only be an issues at Peak Time like the east side of the system.
As noted. there maybe land issues in this area for not having a collector lane to hwy 8. At the same time, under estimate of road needs like the 407 interchange where cost would be great to be rebuilt the interchange why the collect lane was removed as well not having land in reserve for such expansion.
Going to 5 lanes west of James Snow may come back and bit MTO a few decades down the road or sooner.
The next phase west require a number of overpass bridges to be rebuilt for 10 lanes still has to be done.
All new and rebuilt overpass west of 8 are being built for 10 lanes.
As noted. there maybe land issues in this area for not having a collector lane to hwy 8. At the same time, under estimate of road needs like the 407 interchange where cost would be great to be rebuilt the interchange why the collect lane was removed as well not having land in reserve for such expansion.
Going to 5 lanes west of James Snow may come back and bit MTO a few decades down the road or sooner.
The next phase west require a number of overpass bridges to be rebuilt for 10 lanes still has to be done.
All new and rebuilt overpass west of 8 are being built for 10 lanes.
Haljackey
Active Member
I disagree but I guess we will see. Going from 6 lanes to 8+2 HOV is going to make the 401 flow a lot better here. I still don't think collectors are needed west of the 407 but I'm no expert. I am hopeful Milton won't keep growing the way Mississauga did and try to put an emphasis on rail and transit use. This plus work from home should help reduce the 'induced' demand on the widened 401 here. Once the HOVs go all the way to Highway 8 you will kinda have a mini express lane for carpoolers too- that will be one long stretch for carpoolers and families.
drum118
Superstar
Today HOV lanes are a waste of lane considering you get Sunday drivers in that lane and close to 70% single drivers these days. Milton could end up being 75% the size of Mississauga, but you got the KW area as well Guelph to be added to the numbers. There will be a lot more truck drivers on the road than today that will have an impact on traffic since the RR are not really interested in moving them today.
KevinT
Active Member
Not entirely true, the new Tremaine interchange west of Hwy 25 is already well into construction, which I imagine will also be served by these collectors.
crs1026
Superstar
^At the rate that Fulfilment Centers are growing in Halton and Peel, along with the new CN yard, the 401 thru Milton is going to be very, very busy.
- Paul
- Paul
afransen
Senior Member
I am coming around to the idea that the HOV lanes should only be for buses. 2-3 occupant cars just jam it up. They seldom flow much faster than regular traffic lanes because of the merging out requires slowing to match speed.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
MTO installed speed change lanes on the 400 HOV lanes for this reason. They don't require additional pavement width, instead opting for a reduced central shoulder, so it is feasible if MTO finds they work to modify existing HOV lanes to include them.
afransen
Senior Member
Honestly, it is really bad engineering practice that they put in HOV lanes elsewhere without considering this highly predictable dynamic. I have seen those HOV exit 'ramps' on the 400. I'm not sure how well they work in rush hour congestion, the 400 was free flowing when I was driving through. I can imagine in severe congestion, those exit ramps will still backup onto the HOV lane but it should help.
Haljackey
Active Member
Ya 2+ seems a little low and I thought Ontario was just starting at that number to introduce people to the HOV lanes when they first opened. 3+ is where they really start to make a difference moving more people on congested roads.
Also HOVs may not be the fastest when traffic is free-flowing, but when traffic is congested it usually flows better. I've been in situations where I am 10-20 km/h slower than traffic to the right of me and then bam! The general lanes encounter traffic congestion but the HOV is still moving ok. I quickly come up to vehicles I saw passing me and then leave them in the dust.
Once you get the realllllly long HOVs built like from Highway 8 (or is it 24 now?) to 410, it is going to operate like a mini express. You may be going slower than the left laners, but you will have a more consistent overall speed.
jamincan
Active Member
Do you know if it's supposed to be a full interchange? They seem really far along on the south side, but as I recall, there's no sign of corresponding work on the north side.
drum118
Superstar
That is another phase yet to be release for tender
mtomo
New Member
Agree 100%.I still find it hard to believe there is going to be a collector-express system west of the 407. Both the 407 and Winston Churchill overpasses were never designed with this intent, and I thought the start of the complex freeway would always begin between Winston Churchill and Mississauga Road.
But as we all see, a new collector system is going in west of the 407. I find this one to be relatively short and it still boggles my mind why they are doing it. Ideally collectors should service at least 3 interchanges to be of value, but since the (relatively new) James Snow Parkway overpass also cannot support a collector-express system below it, it's going to just service two interchanges- Trafalgar and the 407. It would have been nice to push it through here and maybe Martin Street as well, but that would requite more overpass replacements. On Google Maps you can still see new the Martin Street overpass under construction, which implies that even now collectors are not considered anywhere west of this current widening project.
Google Maps
Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
-----
I'll be driving this stretch of the 401 for the first time since February 2020 on Saturday (flying out of Pearson... wish me luck lol) - kind of looking forward to seeing the transformation with my own eyes. Hope traffic ain't too bad.
I like to think of it like the short collector lanes on Highway 400 between Highway 7 and Langstaff (or Gardiner from Kipling to Royal York), however they don't use the words "express" or "collector" over there.
KevinT
Active Member
I haven't seen the plans so can't say. The last time I was through that area a month or two ago however, it appeared that they'd started to do some grubbing on the north side.